Religion and Ethics Forum

God Dodger

What, exactly, is this 'god' thingy that people are 'dodging'?

In discussions after your triumphant return, I'm not at all sure what you mean by 'God'. Our Alan is pretty explicit about what he means, as is Vlad, at least most of the time (don't mention simulated universes), but your good self, not so much (although I may have missed something).

You can hardly accuse people of dodging something that you can't define or explain...   

I think you’ll find attendance at steamies has declined even further with the loss not entirely a positive thing. Still as you brought it up we can see the decline in church going as another symptom in the decline of the collective activity. Think the decline in mass viewing of TV.

Perhaps the decline in church going is simply reflective of the decline of religiosity in general, as is the case here in Scotland as the last census confirmed.

I'd be hesitant to draw comparisons with the likes of TV watching though since I'd imagine (though I've no personal experience to call on) that while Christian church services still contain the same basic elements they did decades ago: hymns, prayers, sermons and bible readings, how TV is consumed has changed dramatically with technological changes: there is now streaming 'on demand', copious channels to choose from and programmes that never appear on terrestrial channels.

Maybe Gordon, but if there are Committed atheists going about don’t you think the public Should be as well informed as possible?

Generally speaking, I don't think the public care how many atheists or theists there are going about as long as they behave themselves - and I don't recall reading or hearing concerns about rampaging gangs of any variations of atheists or theists.

Tell you what though, here in Scotland the last census (2022) showed that the numbers of people saying that religion played no part in their lives has increased dramatically (note: this doesn't mean they are all atheists), so it seems unlikely that the presence of atheists would be the 'talk of the Steamie' here in Scotland.

Perhaps your imagination is going through another overactive spell.

I think the key point is that people believe they exist - that's what allows them to work as a method of control or influence.
But surely the whole point it that they go beyond what it imaginable - so, sure you have experienced good stuff in the real world - but heaven is meant to be unimaginably better, unimaginably good. Sure you have experienced bad stuff in the real world - but hell is meant to be unimaginably worse, unimaginably bad.

But the other element which is challenging for people to imagine is the time scale - this unimaginably good stuff or unimaginably bad stuff goes on for ever, to infinity. And for ever/infinity is also something which people struggle to imagine.

So although there is a hook into the imaginable - people can imagine good/bad stuff that goes on for a long time, heaven and hell take that to a new, basically unimaginable level.

But I come back to my first point - the key here is believing that you are going to have unimaginably good/bad stuff for ever. That's what works in terms of control. If you believe it then it would also work if it were really, really good/bad for a really, really long time (but not for ever). It doesn't work if people don't believe heave and hell actually exist.

But the other point that goes along with believing is that no-one can verify this for you - no-one can come along as say 'hey, yes I was in heaven - wasn't really all that it was cracked up to be and they kicked me out after 6 months' or 'hey, yes I was in hell - wasn't really all that bad at all - all the fun people were there'. The point is the unknowable promise and the unknowable threat which is the key to the control as long as you believe in the promise and believe in the threat.

So out of your suitcase of theories on the workings of religion we have 1) Upbringing 2) Church or temple or mosque attendance and now 3) The promise of reward or punishment....also....4) mental incapacity?

And yet, Lucy Mangan the Guardian journalist professes to  be a committed Atheist.

Has she or is she letting the side down?

Has her rejection of God some how gone wrong?

Is this woman a pariah now amongst the non religious fraternity?

Of course not.