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1
Christian Topic / Re: God and suffering
« Last post by Alan Burns on Today at 12:56:34 PM »
In your post 39498 of the 'Searching for God' thread you said this:
Quote
I have never denied that human will is deterministic.  It derives 100% from the conscious will of the human soul.
Now the word 'deterministic' means:
Quote
relating to the philosophical doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes regarded as external to the will.
Which means that 'the conscious will of the human soul' has to be part of this deterministic process which you had agreed to.

However, now you say that you would like to alter the word determinism to leave the 'ism' out so that you don't have to go along with what you said before.

In my book that's called hypocrisy, Alan!


The selected quote relating to "deterministic" begins with the words:
" relating to the philosophical doctrine ..."
A philosophical doctrine can't be regarded as a definition of truth - it is a belief in the same category as many other doctrines, and as such can't be regarded as the absolute truth you and others try to imply.
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Christian Topic / Re: God and suffering
« Last post by Alan Burns on Today at 12:44:06 PM »
I know what you're saying Alan, you've posted it about 10,000 times and I could pretty much recite it all from memory. The point is that the quotes tell you what the word determinism means - and that when you claim you are not denying determinism, that is actually a false statement. Determinism means what you call an "inevitable reaction".

If only to allow for clarity of this debate, will you at least admit that and stop trying to apply determinism to what you are proposing?
So what determines "Love".  Do you consider Love to be just an inevitable, unavoidable reaction?

For God so Loved the world, that He sent His only son ....

God gave us the ability to love, as He loved, through the gift of free will.
3
Christian Topic / Re: Searching for GOD...
« Last post by enki on Today at 12:34:15 PM »
I came across these words on the voice for justice web site, and thought them very appropriate for this thread:

In this time of enforced isolation, which could easily have one climbing the walls with frustration and loneliness, perhaps there is also opportunity to draw closer to God, free from distraction. 
 
There is real opportunity here to close one’s eyes to the traumas of the world, and focus instead on Christ, seeking to know him better.  To hear his voice.  And as one does that, the realities of existence, of which we are so often unaware, come more sharply into focus.  To win God is to win all.
 
So there is blessing here.  In this time of self-isolation there is a real chance to get to know God and ourselves much better.  To discover strengths and gifts we perhaps didn’t know we had – to try out ‘projects’ that we’ve always wondered about, but for which up to now we haven’t had the time.
 
We are in the eye of a storm at the moment and there can be a real temptation to despair – to shout, ‘I can’t cope.  I can’t bear this separation from loved ones.’  And especially is this true for those witnessing from afar the agonies of a loved fighting for their lives on a ventilator – knowing they can’t be with in their precious last moments.   In that situation, hard as it seems, we really do have to trust God.  But the underlying truth in all of this is that this current crisis will pass.  There is hope.  There will be light.
 
In suffering we are called to endure.  Hard as it may seem, that is where the gold is tempered and refined.   So let us encourage one another and endure, confident that at the last the Lord will bring forth something infinitely precious – in our own lives, and for humanity as a whole.
 
Be encouraged, and be strong - in trust that at the last we will see the glory of the Lord.

In these challenging times, may the Lord bless and
 keep safe you and all those you love,


So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.  Try reading psalm 139 or John's gospel and allow the profound meaning of the words to sink in.  There is nothing to fear, and you may well discover something infinitely precious - the gift of faith.

I do not search for reasons not to believe,  Alan, as I have told you many times in the past. Why do you continue to lie about this?
4
Christian Topic / Re: God and suffering
« Last post by enki on Today at 12:28:19 PM »
If you take the "ism" out of determinism, it would help you see the meaning of what I am saying.  The quotations you refer to are all based on a particular philosophical point of view which uses this label.  My contention is what determines an act of human will.  My argument that it is determined by the conscious will of the human soul reflects the reality behind the freedom we all enjoy.

In your post 39498 of the 'Searching for God' thread you said this:

Quote
I have never denied that human will is deterministic.  It derives 100% from the conscious will of the human soul.

Now the word 'deterministic' means:

Quote
relating to the philosophical doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes regarded as external to the will.

Which means that 'the conscious will of the human soul' has to be part of this deterministic process which you had agreed to.

However, now you say that you would like to alter the word determinism to leave the 'ism' out so that you don't have to go along with what you said before.

In my book that's called hypocrisy, Alan!


I have asked you several questions recently:

1) On April 5th(on this thread):
Quote
So, what are the determining factors within the 'human soul' which would produce the inevitable reactions of the human will in making its decisions and choices?

2) On Feb 23rd(on the 'Searching for God' thread):
Quote
How do we make decisions? Never mind the 'opportunity', what about the process?

3) On Feb 19th(on the 'Searching for God' thread):
Quote
However let's take your first premise, which was that we have the reality of our own freedom to consciously contemplate and think about the source of our own thought processes.

Could you please lay out the logical steps from this premise, such that it leads to a conclusion that you wish to make?

None of which you have addressed at all.

On the other hand, you dived into this thread on April 3rd (Post 49) to ask Blue two questions:
Quote
But what precisely is it that discerns what is good and what is bad in the materialistic scenario?
Can the properties of material elements discern such things?

to which you got immediate answers in the next post.

It seems to me that you ask questions and expect answers, but if someone else asks you questions, then you ignore/avoid/evade the awkward parts or simply don't bother to answer at all.

In my book that's called hypocrisy, Alan!
5
Christian Topic / Re: Searching for GOD...
« Last post by ippy on Today at 12:21:18 PM »
I came across these words on the voice for justice web site, and thought them very appropriate for this thread:

In this time of enforced isolation, which could easily have one climbing the walls with frustration and loneliness, perhaps there is also opportunity to draw closer to God, free from distraction. 
 
There is real opportunity here to close one’s eyes to the traumas of the world, and focus instead on Christ, seeking to know him better.  To hear his voice.  And as one does that, the realities of existence, of which we are so often unaware, come more sharply into focus.  To win God is to win all.
 
So there is blessing here.  In this time of self-isolation there is a real chance to get to know God and ourselves much better.  To discover strengths and gifts we perhaps didn’t know we had – to try out ‘projects’ that we’ve always wondered about, but for which up to now we haven’t had the time.
 
We are in the eye of a storm at the moment and there can be a real temptation to despair – to shout, ‘I can’t cope.  I can’t bear this separation from loved ones.’  And especially is this true for those witnessing from afar the agonies of a loved fighting for their lives on a ventilator – knowing they can’t be with in their precious last moments.   In that situation, hard as it seems, we really do have to trust God.  But the underlying truth in all of this is that this current crisis will pass.  There is hope.  There will be light.
 
In suffering we are called to endure.  Hard as it may seem, that is where the gold is tempered and refined.   So let us encourage one another and endure, confident that at the last the Lord will bring forth something infinitely precious – in our own lives, and for humanity as a whole.
 
Be encouraged, and be strong - in trust that at the last we will see the glory of the Lord.

In these challenging times, may the Lord bless and
 keep safe you and all those you love,


So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.  Try reading psalm 139 or John's gospel and allow the profound meaning of the words to sink in.  There is nothing to fear, and you may well discover something infinitely precious - the gift of faith.

If you search the internet there's plenty of nut jobs and nut job organisations, congratulations Alan, you've found another one.

commiserations Alan, ippy.
6
Christian Topic / Re: Searching for GOD...
« Last post by Nearly Sane on Today at 12:16:54 PM »
I came across these words on the voice for justice web site, and thought them very appropriate for this thread:

In this time of enforced isolation, which could easily have one climbing the walls with frustration and loneliness, perhaps there is also opportunity to draw closer to God, free from distraction. 
 
There is real opportunity here to close one’s eyes to the traumas of the world, and focus instead on Christ, seeking to know him better.  To hear his voice.  And as one does that, the realities of existence, of which we are so often unaware, come more sharply into focus.  To win God is to win all.
 
So there is blessing here.  In this time of self-isolation there is a real chance to get to know God and ourselves much better.  To discover strengths and gifts we perhaps didn’t know we had – to try out ‘projects’ that we’ve always wondered about, but for which up to now we haven’t had the time.
 
We are in the eye of a storm at the moment and there can be a real temptation to despair – to shout, ‘I can’t cope.  I can’t bear this separation from loved ones.’  And especially is this true for those witnessing from afar the agonies of a loved fighting for their lives on a ventilator – knowing they can’t be with in their precious last moments.   In that situation, hard as it seems, we really do have to trust God.  But the underlying truth in all of this is that this current crisis will pass.  There is hope.  There will be light.
 
In suffering we are called to endure.  Hard as it may seem, that is where the gold is tempered and refined.   So let us encourage one another and endure, confident that at the last the Lord will bring forth something infinitely precious – in our own lives, and for humanity as a whole.
 
Be encouraged, and be strong - in trust that at the last we will see the glory of the Lord.

In these challenging times, may the Lord bless and
 keep safe you and all those you love,


So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.  Try reading psalm 139 or John's gospel and allow the profound meaning of the words to sink in.  There is nothing to fear, and you may well discover something infinitely precious - the gift of faith.
You have ben told time and again by many people that they don't seek reasons not to believe but rather just don't believe = and you comtinually then put up a lie like the above, Why is that?
7
Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Dr Catherine Calderwood
« Last post by Udayana on Today at 11:48:24 AM »
errr, yes!

is English your first language?
hmm... can't remember. Was rubbish at English in school though.
8
Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Coronavirus
« Last post by Walter on Today at 11:46:51 AM »
It is the best way of keeping them clean. :P ;D
Lr

KSAW  ;D
9
Christian Topic / Re: Searching for GOD...
« Last post by To Infinity and beyond on Today at 11:44:43 AM »
Your god, Alan, would be an evil, cruel monster if this were true.

FFS, how many more times? Nobody needs a reason not to believe, what is needed is the first hint of any reason at all to take any of your absurd, contradictory nonsense seriously.
I think these have been outlined by Neil Tyson De Grasse I believe.
10
Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Coronavirus
« Last post by Littleroses on Today at 11:41:23 AM »
Lr

here's some more advice ;

don't lick door handles !   8)

It is the best way of keeping them clean. :P ;D
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