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Christian Topic / Re: A 21st century Jesus
« Last post by The poster formerly known as.... on Today at 06:47:43 PM »
Quote from: Shaker on Today at 06:24:46 PM
Occam's Razor. Hitchens's Razor, come to that.
Yes. We have many, many, many, many demonstrable examples of deluded people. We have no demonstrable examples of alleged sons of alleged gods.

I don't know what argument you are having but it is different from any discussion about the trilemma and whether it's right to suggest that someone who is either the worlds greatest conman, or has a delusion in a way big and bad enough to launch a million internet forums and garner the mouth foaming ire of antitheists, is also a Great moral teacher.   

I think we are therefore talking at cross purposes here.


I know where you stand Shaker but it is not at the centre of the universe.
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Corbyn
« Last post by Nearly Sane on Today at 06:34:05 PM »
Been watching Corbyn's interview with Channel 4, and whatever other doubts, he is very clear condemning the Munich terrorist atrocity, so good for him
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Christian Topic / Re: A 21st century Jesus
« Last post by Shaker on Today at 06:24:46 PM »
Quote from: The poster formerly known as.... on Today at 06:15:40 PM
Your claim of parsimony is completely debateable.
Occam's Razor. Hitchens's Razor, come to that.

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You are claiming that delusion on his part is more likely.
Yes. We have many, many, many, many demonstrable examples of deluded people. We have no demonstrable examples of alleged sons of alleged gods.

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Lewis discusses this anyway. The thing is are people more likely to be taken in by a sincere madman or a calculating con man or either since the claim is the same. The question remains here. Is believing that when people look at you they are looking at God compatible with great moral teaching?
Why wouldn't it be?

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At the end it matters not Lewis divides those correctly between those who are prepared to consider that Jesus may actually be who the gospels and epistles purport him to be and those who do not.

He has little time with those trying to say ''He was a con man but a great moral teacher'' as I suppose you do to.
Correct albeit for different reasons, because I don't think he was either a con man or a particularly great moral teacher. You don't seem to be able to bring yourself to say why, when Lewis flatly asserts that nobody can regard Jesus as simply a great moral teacher and just that, ruling that option out of court, anybody has to accept his fiat. Who made him the authority - which he poses as - on how anyone is allowed to view Jesus?
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Christian Topic / Re: A 21st century Jesus
« Last post by The poster formerly known as.... on Today at 06:15:40 PM »
Quote from: Shaker on Today at 05:28:56 PM
To be a con man one has to be conscious of the con; that's to say, one has to be knowingly deceitful. Floo trips up on this point a lot, regularly invoking lies (which by definition entails deliberate mendacity) where sincere mistake is a sufficient, certainly more parsimonious explanation. Can somebody who is entirely and completely sincere about their perceived mission in life but is nevertheless wrong be regarded as a con man?

I notice you haven't even attempted to address the points I raised about Lewis. So it goes.

Your claim of parsimony is completely debateable.

You are claiming that delusion on his part is more likely. Lewis discusses this anyway. The thing is are people more likely to be taken in by a sincere madman or a calculating con man or either since the claim is the same. The question remains here. Is believing that when people look at you they are looking at God compatible with great moral teaching?


At the end it matters not Lewis divides those correctly between those who are prepared to consider that Jesus may actually be who the gospels and epistles purport him to be and those who do not.


He has little time with those trying to say ''He was a con man but a great moral teacher'' as I suppose you do to.
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Christian Topic / Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Last post by NicholasMarks on Today at 06:15:05 PM »
Quote from: ippy on Today at 02:53:36 PM
It's all in your hands to stop the going around in circles Nick, all you need to do is give direct answers to the various questions you're being asked.

At the moment Nick, if I was to ask you what do you think of the weather now it has cooled down a bit?

Your answer would be something about this Jesus of yours all mixed in with something about super abundant electrical energy and the righteous sulphur smell of steam engines?

No wonder the going around in circles when all you ever do Nick, is stubbornly refuse to answer the questions asked of you?

It's not like answers you do give make any sense anyway?

Regards ippy

That's the wonderful thing about faith in Jesus Christ...we expect to be taken to task by the antiChrist. I have given you all a more honest answer than you deserve but you have collectively decided to have a go. I had to face the same thing when I found myself within a factory full of exhausted women  who were very unstable because of the heavy hand of unrighteous people, but I stuck it out and tried to help. It soon became obvious what was happening and I was thrilled to see God's hand at work soothing and calming the whole scene, with me as his humble assisgent so I am well able to reach over your  intimidation and tell those who might need this help...don't allow yourselves to be wound up...cling to faith in Jesus Christ and try to follow him accurately...ignore what iniquity tells you but talk with Jesus directly and you have begun a wonderful path that the antiChrist cannot prevent you from entering.

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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Corbyn
« Last post by Nearly Sane on Today at 06:12:36 PM »
Quote from: Shaker on Today at 05:59:17 PM
I didn't know he had stated as much so explicitly. (Admittedly, I don't follow these things in wearisome detail, so I may well have missed it). The one well-known comment he made which I can recall is that on balance he was 70% in favour of staying in the EU provided it underwent/undergoes thoroughgoing top-to-bottom reform.

The use of the word lying also precludes the possibility that someone can change their mind and support something they earlier opposed and vice versa.
And he campaigned however lukewarm for Remain. And yes, he could change his mind, has he said that he did?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430606
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Corbyn
« Last post by Shaker on Today at 05:59:17 PM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on Today at 05:44:28 PM
So when he said he was anti Brexit he was lying?
I didn't know he had stated as much so explicitly. (Admittedly, I don't follow these things in wearisome detail, so I may well have missed it). The one well-known comment he made which I can recall is that on balance he was 70% in favour of staying in the EU provided it underwent/undergoes thoroughgoing top-to-bottom reform.

The use of the word lying also precludes the possibility that someone can change their mind and support something they earlier opposed and vice versa.
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Corbyn
« Last post by Nearly Sane on Today at 05:44:28 PM »
Quote from: Gonnagle on Today at 10:50:47 AM
Dear severely muddled,

What is the big fuss, the man simply see's the future!

Corbyn is not anti Semitic, and he is not a communist, is he a socialist? well explain to me what a socialist is.

The future, what are the facts?

1. Brexit, Corbyn is pro brexit and he would make a better negotiator over brexit than the Tory I don't give a fuck about Britain party.

2. Internet, our kids can't all be computer wizards, there needs to be real jobs out there.

3. Capitalism is a busted flush, it simply does not work, the Tory ideology of small government is history, we need to take all the basics of life back under government control, and we, the have's need to pay for it until future times when the have not's can also help pay their way.

4. The wealth of the world cannot simply be in the hands of a small percentage of the worlds population, they need to be taxed properly, taxation needs to be open and transparent.

5. Robots, they are here and they are taking our jobs, this is fact not fiction.

Commonsense and compassion must be the new words in politics and Corbyn has this in abundance, we can't simply going on taking we must start to give back, and this is not charity it is commonsense, if you have our kids future at heart then get behind Corbyn or people like him who see the future.

Gonnagle.
So when he said he was anti Brexit he was lying?
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Politics & Current Affairs / Re: Corbyn
« Last post by Robbie on Today at 05:32:08 PM »
Quote from: Genial Harry Grout on Today at 05:05:11 PM
Oh, puhleeze! May is both an utter incompetent and a heartless bitch, not merely abasically good person who's made afewregrettable mistakes. Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, has a long record of fighting against injustice and for the underdog, and would be a great labour PM, even if he has made a few silly statements. He's not even all that left, on the long view: no more so than Wilson or Attlee. Politics generally has moved so far to the right since Thatcher's [spits] day that even Wilson would seem like a left-wing firebrand today.

I cautiously agree with you tho' wonder if JC might be out of his depth as PM, he doesn't appear to know how to handle situations like the antisemitic accusations, & agree with Gonners post on page 1.

Link to Morning Star article:- https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labour-rejects-mail-allegations-corbyn-laid-wreath-terrorists-grave

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Christian Topic / Re: A 21st century Jesus
« Last post by Shaker on Today at 05:28:56 PM »
Quote from: The poster formerly known as.... on Today at 05:25:11 PM
No, I think he is rightly exposing the slovenly thinking that one can be both a great moral teacher AND be considered the worlds greatest con man at the same time.
To be a con man one has to be conscious of the con; that's to say, one has to be knowingly deceitful. Floo trips up on this point a lot, regularly invoking lies (which by definition entails deliberate mendacity) where sincere mistake is a sufficient, certainly more parsimonious explanation. Can somebody who is entirely and completely sincere about their perceived mission in life but is nevertheless wrong be regarded as a con man?

I notice you haven't even attempted to address the points I raised about Lewis. So it goes.
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