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Christian Topic / Re: The Meaning Of The Bible
« Last post by Appalled to the core of my being. on Today at 04:12:50 PM »
Drivel - they had no need to grovel for forgiveness or swallow the patently unjust, barbaric, bloodthirsty nonsense. They also had direct evidence and experience of god (and the talking snake), all they lacked was any sense of right and wrong.

They had direct and evidence experience of God and yet still disregarded him. They had a sense of right because they had direct evidence and experience of God.

What is it you are against Grovelling or forgiveness. Whether they grovelled for the forgiveness that is there because of Christ I know not.

I am confused as to what more or else could you want than a relationship with God  which is on offer......other of course than not having a relationship with God?
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Christian Topic / Re: The Meaning Of The Bible
« Last post by Never Talk to Strangers on Today at 04:01:51 PM »
They had the choice to continue there lives with God....and you have the choice to continue your life with God and you have the same choice as everybody else. A sinless start is patently irrelevent to the choice to be with God or to not be with God.

Drivel - they had no need to grovel for forgiveness or swallow the patently unjust, barbaric, bloodthirsty nonsense. They also had direct evidence and experience of god (and the talking snake), all they lacked was any sense of right and wrong - it seems your god will do anything but offer anybody a fully just and fair choice.
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The hate speech laws are in conflict with free speech. If free speech was protected by our constitution in the same way as it is in the USA, our hate speech laws would be unconstitutional.

Free speech and rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are just as much silly , indefinable and self-contradictory idealisations as "God", "free will", "life after death" - interminably pulled apart in other threads.

We only need to look at state of America for plenty of evidence that the USA constitution is a pile of shite.
 
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If it's illegal to mock a long dead semi mythical figure who decided to spread his religious ideas by means of violence, then the hate speech law goes too far.

But it's not their prophet who is actually being mocked, is it?
 
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Christian Topic / Re: The Meaning Of The Bible
« Last post by Appalled to the core of my being. on Today at 03:45:52 PM »
And round and round and round you go, never actually addressing the points. According to the mad story, I am not given the choice Adam and Eve were and, so it seems, find myself in the situation of being (unavoidably) a sinner because of the consequences of their choice. Christ has not dealt with the consequences otherwise I would have the same choice (from a sinless starting point) as Adam and Eve.
They had the choice to continue there lives with God....and you have the choice to continue your life with God and you have the same choice as everybody else. A sinless start is patently irrelevent to the choice to be with God or to not be with God.
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Christian Topic / Re: The Meaning Of The Bible
« Last post by Never Talk to Strangers on Today at 03:21:14 PM »
God doesn't ask you to  ask for forgiveness for what other people did a long time ago. Christ has dealt with that. There is though, the matter of your own standing with God.

And round and round and round you go, never actually addressing the points. According to the mad story, I am not given the choice Adam and Eve were and, so it seems, find myself in the situation of being (unavoidably) a sinner because of the consequences of their choice. Christ has not dealt with the consequences otherwise I would have the same choice (from a sinless starting point) as Adam and Eve.
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Theism and Atheism / Re: God
« Last post by Never Talk to Strangers on Today at 03:13:17 PM »
It is an actual experience. You are asserting (with no evidence at all) that it is imagination.

The experience isn't imaginary. It is the afterlife that almost certainly is.

Scientists (as in the link) acknowledge that it cannot be brushed off like that.

Except they didn't really. Even though the authors seem to want to believe in something not explainable by current science, all they were actually able to do was raise questions about some of the current ideas and say that it hasn't been fully explained yet.

The word "afterlife" only appears three times in the article, once warning against jumping to that conclusion and twice in the context of psychological expectations. So even with their bias, they stop short of explicitly suggesting it as an explanation. They also specifically reference Popper with regard to falsifiability. We would need a hypothesis of an afterlife that made testable predictions. I'm not aware even of a proposal for such a hypothesis.
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The hate speech laws are in conflict with free speech. If free speech was protected by our constitution in the same way as it is in the USA, our hate speech laws would be unconstitutional.

If it's illegal to mock a long dead semi mythical figure who decided to spread his religious ideas by means of violence, then the hate speech law goes too far.
I think that's a very simplistic assertion about the spread of Islam. As with most history you can't usually sum it up in simplistic terms...unless you're Trump or Vote Leave.

The French people and those of many other countries are divided on the idea of free speech - it generates a lot of public debate. Back in 2008, a left-wing cartoonist, Sine, was fired from Charlie Hebdo because he was accused of anti-Semitism and refused to apologise. He was then charged with inciting racial hatred, found not guilty and then the courts ordered Charlie Hebdo to pay Sine EUR 90,000 for wrongful dismissal.

France has a law making it illegal to denigrate the French flag - so that's a limit on freedom of expression - some symbols off limits while others are fair game. The debate is not simple.
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Christian Topic / Re: The Meaning Of The Bible
« Last post by Appalled to the core of my being. on Today at 03:00:14 PM »
Except it's nothing like that at all. The consequences in your mad story are by design - god made the rules and made a deliberate decision that the consequences should extend to all of humanity.

Then you're simply not paying attention.

We are not in the same place as Adam and Eve started from, so he hasn't.

Only if we accept the nonsensical, barbaric, unjust, horrific nonsense and ask for forgiveness for being punished for what somebody else did a long time ago and without knowledge of good and evil. All without the first hint of a morsel of a scintilla of evidence or reasoning to suggest that this implausible nonsense might be true.

As will any number of people in other religions, sects, and cults, with contradictory stories.    ::)
God doesn't ask you to  ask for forgiveness for what other people did a long time ago. Christ has dealt with that. There is though, the matter of your own standing with God.
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