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Christian Topic / Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Last post by Dicky Underpants on Today at 04:42:11 PM »
God does not murder people. "Every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" Genesis 8:21. That justifies our death, therefore he does not murder us. Isaac needed a substitute, the ram. The Israelite firstborn needed one, we need one, everyone is born with the sinful nature.

But that substitute was God the Son, the second person of the Trinity - in short God himself (There are not 3 Gods, but one God).
Perhaps God might have cut out the middle man.
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Christian Topic / Re: Using the Bible as an excuse for bigotry
« Last post by Dicky Underpants on Today at 04:36:43 PM »
If Ecclesiastes can say that everyone will sin, generations before I'm born then either a) there really is no free will or b) the bar for 'sin' is set ridiculously low which makes the whole thing a con.


A topic worth raising with Alan Burns, in his assertions about free-will (I'll get round to it myself eventually :) )
Of course, St Paul reiterates the concept in the New Testament (I quote from memory):

"The good that I would I do not, and the evil I would not, that I do. Wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from the body of this death?"

Well, guess who? Why Jaysus of course.
So do we only have free will if we give our selves up to Jesus? But isn't that surrendering of oneself allowing the entry of the Holy Spirit, which like the wind "Bloweth wheresoever it listeth"?
I realise I'm addressing these questions to the wrong person, Outrider: but they do epitomise the whole contradictory nonsense of the Christian 'human free will argument".
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General Discussion / Re: Western Australia and Assisted Dying
« Last post by Littleroses on Today at 04:32:42 PM »
Western Ausralia has voted to legalise voluntary assisted dying, being the second state(after Victoria) to do so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50733018


For me this is a victory for compassion.

I agree with you. It would be good if the UK brought in similar legislation, with appropriate safeguards.
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General Discussion / Western Australia and Assisted Dying
« Last post by enki on Today at 04:23:47 PM »
Western Ausralia has voted to legalise voluntary assisted dying, being the second state(after Victoria) to do so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50733018


For me this is a victory for compassion.
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Christian Topic / Re: Searching for GOD...
« Last post by enki on Today at 04:07:07 PM »
Alan, with reference to your post 37975:

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As I have previously pointed out many times, you cannot presume to know that non physical causes must be subject to the same time dependent cause and effect chains as physically controlled reactions.

What on earth do you mean by 'time dependent'? If effects came before causes, the world would be extremely confusing, literally running backwards. If effects had no time relation to causes, then  the world would be chaotic.

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And the other aspect of the word "physical" is that by implication a physically generated event will just be an uncontrollable reaction subject to the laws of physics.

Nope, anything subject to the laws of physics is not 'uncontrollable', it is controlled by the laws of physics.

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We can have no control over the laws of physics, but conscious control does emanate from the human mind.

I agree that both consciousness and control emanate from the human mind, which, itself, is a product of the human brain. If you take the view that we are our brains then the 'we' becomes meaningless in your sentence.

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You need to honestly ask yourself if you are just an inevitable consequence of physically defined chains of reactions, or could there be something else beyond these limitations to enable the freedom we all perceive to be a reality.

I don't see myself as 'just' anything, Alan. The idea that I am my brain, and that this brain produces immeasurable physical reactions(or interactions) makes good sense to me, especially in light of the vast and increasing knowledge of its capabilities and limitations. Could there be something else? Possibly, but without explaining how it functions(including how to get over the logic of determined/random choice), where it is located, how it interacts with the physical brain or even producing evidence that it actually exists, then that's all it remains, a possibility.
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Interesting article.   I did a series of Zen retreats, where I bashed my head against the narrative idea.  This seemed to come back to memory, my life is a story because I remember bits, and stitch them together.  I think I cried a lot over this, it's very painful to let go of it.   In the end, I have a mixture of story and emptiness.   The story gives a structure, but the emptiness of things provides great beauty.  It's not a bad compromise. 
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that'll please Jeremy Clarkson.

It is that horrible man who is, 'mad and dangerous'. >:(
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General Discussion / Donor Skin
« Last post by Littleroses on Today at 03:33:30 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50743303

New Zealand is importing donor skin to help heal the burns of the  volcano victims.

I didn't realise that skin can be used from a dead person as well as other body parts.
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that'll please Jeremy Clarkson.
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No matter what your position is on climate change, I think this is unarguable.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50740324

Agreed.
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