Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 1418585 times)

BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31125 on: September 08, 2018, 12:09:08 PM »
But there is only one reality outside human perception.  Opinions are not truth.  The truth is out there to be discovered.

Perhaps the truth is that there is no god, and you have just deluded yourself?

Are you open to that being the case?
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31126 on: September 08, 2018, 04:41:41 PM »
The evil forces of this world have been successful in the aim of splitting up Christian communities and causing many divisions, but within each group there are genuine devotees who will continue to worship the one true God and to share and promote positive aspects of their faith with other communities.

Pleased to hear of your ecumenical leanings. But are you suggesting that it was the 'evil forces of this world' who caused the Great Schism? It is generally understood that the arguments arose in the highest reaches of the Church hierarchy, with the question of the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff and the nature of the Triune Godhead at stake (the Filioque matter) From my point of view, these questions have no more significance than the counting of angels on pinheads, but for the Church at the time, they seemed of supreme importance. Maybe you're more of a Protestant at heart, and believe in the Priesthood of all believers. But it's encouraging to think that you have a critical attitude towards the Pope(s) and the Magisterium. Watch out, you may be excommunicated!

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31127 on: September 08, 2018, 05:07:20 PM »
But there is only one reality outside human perception.  Opinions are not truth.  The truth is out there to be discovered.

If this one truth is outside human perception, if it's outside human perception how would you know that there is one truth, the truth is someone is making it up as they go along, honestly why do you people bother? 

My deepest commiserations to you Alan, ippy

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31128 on: September 08, 2018, 05:25:08 PM »
If this one truth is outside human perception, if it's outside human perception how would you know that there is one truth, the truth is someone is making it up as they go along, honestly why do you people bother? 

But we can use our God given powers of conscious perception and deduction to discern what God has revealed to us.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31129 on: September 08, 2018, 05:35:00 PM »
But we can use our God given powers of conscious perception and deduction to discern what God has revealed to us.

in which case it wouldn't be outside of human perception at all.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31130 on: September 08, 2018, 07:59:48 PM »
But we can use our God given powers of conscious perception and deduction to discern what God has revealed to us.

Of course the old tried and tested reliable religion magic Polyfiller machine, just sand it down a bit it'll fill all of the gaps.

Even deeper commiseration to you Alan, ippy.

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31131 on: September 09, 2018, 01:10:33 AM »
But we can use our God given powers of conscious perception and deduction to discern what God has revealed to us.

Yes Alan, but if this is all outside of human perception, how would you know the god idea of yours where you think god had revealed anything to you or even if those that have put these ideas into your head would have sufficiant knowledge about something that is beyond human perception that would enable them to pass on this unknowable knowledge to you?

No wonder so many think your ideas about god are so barmy, even worse you seem to be so totally impervious to any form of reason? 

Many commiserations to you Alan, ippy.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 10:10:45 AM by ippy »

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31132 on: September 09, 2018, 05:23:19 PM »
Perhaps the truth is that there is no god, and you have just deluded yourself?

Are you open to that being the case?
To contemplate the idea that there is no God would be equivalent to me contemplating my own non existence.  The fact that I exist, and am aware of my existence is entirely sufficient for me to realise that this awareness of existence comes from God - not from an aimless, purposeless materialistic process.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31133 on: September 09, 2018, 06:14:06 PM »
To contemplate the idea that there is no God would be equivalent to me contemplating my own non existence.  The fact that I exist, and am aware of my existence is entirely sufficient for me to realise that this awareness of existence comes from God - not from an aimless, purposeless materialistic process.

This just means you believe it and you are not prepared to consider that you are wrong. You are not open minded!
Some people think the same way as you about different gods, and you cannot both be correct.

Do you think being closed minded is a good thing and a likely pathway to the truth?
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Gordon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31134 on: September 09, 2018, 06:15:28 PM »
To contemplate the idea that there is no God would be equivalent to me contemplating my own non existence.  The fact that I exist, and am aware of my existence is entirely sufficient for me to realise that this awareness of existence comes from God - not from an aimless, purposeless materialistic process.

Might you be wrong?

ippy

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31135 on: September 09, 2018, 07:19:53 PM »
There's no viable evidence available that says you're right Alan, unless of course?

Much needed commiserations to you Alan, ippy.

Steve H

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31136 on: September 09, 2018, 07:39:43 PM »
[Hindus and Muslims] are sincerely following a human attempt to reach God, rather than following God's own revelation to humanity.and ?
That's what they'd say about you.
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Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31137 on: September 09, 2018, 08:32:26 PM »
The fact that I believe in one God does not imply narrow mindedness.  There can only be one truth.
Why would there be only one god, though, I wonder? There doesn't seem to me to be anything inherent in the god hypothesis that there should only be one example. If you're going to invoke the concept at all, why not two? Or twelve? Or 449? 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 08:53:40 PM by Shaker »
I keep telling myself I should give up drinking, but then I think, why would I take advice from an alcoholic who talks to himself?

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31138 on: September 09, 2018, 11:19:07 PM »
in which case it wouldn't be outside of human perception at all.
Apologies for not making myself clear.

By "outside human perception" I meant the reality which is not distorted by our fallible powers of human perception and deduction.  But our powers of perception and deduction, which alone are incapable of discerning true reality, can still be used to discern the divine message which God has given to us.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

BeRational

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31139 on: September 09, 2018, 11:21:15 PM »
Apologies for not making myself clear.

By "outside human perception" I meant the reality which is not distorted by our fallible powers of human perception and deduction.  But our powers of perception and deduction, which alone are incapable of discerning true reality, can still be used to discern the divine message which God has given to us.

If you are fallible, could you be wrong about god?

Or do you claim infallibilty?
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31140 on: September 10, 2018, 12:09:28 AM »
Apologies for not making myself clear.

the divine message which God has given to us.

..is it real?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31141 on: September 10, 2018, 06:42:40 AM »
To contemplate the idea that there is no God would be equivalent to me contemplating my own non existence.  The fact that I exist, and am aware of my existence is entirely sufficient for me to realise that this awareness of existence comes from God - not from an aimless, purposeless materialistic process.

Back to fallacy-world again.  The above is a non-sequitur.  I exist therefore God exists. It would be equally valid to claim, I exist therefore Kevin the magic transdimensional Pixie of Surbiton must have made me.  This is flawed thinking born of the anthropic narcissism that 'it's all about us' and it's also lazy thinking because it conveniently hides the problem of Kevin's origins.  In other words, it answers nothing anyway, and it merely serves to titillate our already-overblown ego.  We can do better than that, we can learn to think with integrity and humility, to see that we are part of the tree of life, to start with observations and draw conclusions from that.  Clearly I exist, there is evidence for that; but we have no evidence for Gods or Pixies, so we are not justified in those beliefs.

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31142 on: September 10, 2018, 06:54:17 AM »
Apologies for not making myself clear.

By "outside human perception" I meant the reality which is not distorted by our fallible powers of human perception and deduction.  But our powers of perception and deduction, which alone are incapable of discerning true reality, can still be used to discern the divine message which God has given to us.

Not sure that makes any sense; we are incapable of understanding 'real' reality, but we are capable of understanding god's description of it ?

Apart from which, this deftly overlooks the fact that 'god's message', if by which you mean the Bible, was authored entirely by humans, all of whom were fallible and prone to the same biases as most other humans, so we cannot claim that is free of human bias.  To me, it looks ridden with contradictions, fallacies and biases, a product of its time and culture.  A real message from God, were such a thing possible, would be clear and undoubtable presumably.

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31143 on: September 10, 2018, 08:02:37 AM »
torridon
How AB can read your posts, and those of the other rational posters, and still manage to keep the filter, the blinkers, the self-protecting cottonwool barrier firmly in place is evidence of the depth of , presumably indoctrinated, conviction he has. If there was some slightly modifying balance somewhere it would not be quite so sad, but there isn't I think.
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Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31144 on: September 10, 2018, 09:11:42 AM »
Not sure that makes any sense; we are incapable of understanding 'real' reality, but we are capable of understanding god's description of it ?

Apart from which, this deftly overlooks the fact that 'god's message', if by which you mean the Bible, was authored entirely by humans, all of whom were fallible and prone to the same biases as most other humans, so we cannot claim that is free of human bias.  To me, it looks ridden with contradictions, fallacies and biases, a product of its time and culture.  A real message from God, were such a thing possible, would be clear and undoubtable presumably.
The Bible does have evidence of human error.  But there is a very profound underlying message which goes far beyond the capabilities of human ideology.  As I said earlier, my gifts of perception and deduction are sufficient to discern God.  I put my faith and trust in God's revelations.  Nothing else makes sense of our existence.

Just reflecting on Sassy's OP - If you genuinely seek God, you will find Him.  If you do not want to seek Him, you will find reasons not to do so.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 09:15:19 AM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31145 on: September 10, 2018, 09:16:48 AM »
The Bible does have evidence of human error.  But there is a very profound underlying message which goes far beyond the capabilities of human ideology.  As I said earlier, my gifts of perception and deduction are sufficient to discern God.  I put my faith and trust in God's revelations.  Nothing else makes sense of our existence.

'Faith and Trust' - that's where you are going wrong.  Faith and trust are the enemies of evidence and reason. To discern truth, we need to be able to put aside our prejudices and biases, and let the evidence speak for itself.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 09:19:14 AM by torridon »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31146 on: September 10, 2018, 09:30:16 AM »
The Bible does have evidence of human error.  But there is a very profound underlying message which goes far beyond the capabilities of human ideology.  As I said earlier, my gifts of perception and deduction are sufficient to discern God.  I put my faith and trust in God's revelations.  Nothing else makes sense of our existence.

Just reflecting on Sassy's OP - If you genuinely seek God, you will find Him.  If you do not want to seek Him, you will find reasons not to do so.
You have said this before and when it is pointed out that it is calling Game Littleroses and  Rhiannon liars about their experiences, have shut up for a while merely to repeat it again after sometime.  It's really quite unpleasant.

Shaker

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31147 on: September 10, 2018, 09:31:22 AM »
Just reflecting on Sassy's OP - If you genuinely seek God, you will find Him.  If you do not want to seek Him, you will find reasons not to do so.
Various attributions: "Philosophy is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat; metaphysics is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there; theology is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn't there, and shouting "I found it!""
I keep telling myself I should give up drinking, but then I think, why would I take advice from an alcoholic who talks to himself?

torridon

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31148 on: September 10, 2018, 09:33:01 AM »
Very good  ;D ;D

Alan Burns

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31149 on: September 10, 2018, 10:10:37 AM »
You have said this before and when it is pointed out that it is calling Game Littleroses and  Rhiannon liars about their experiences, have shut up for a while merely to repeat it again after sometime.  It's really quite unpleasant.
It may take some people a lifetime to find God, or to rediscover Him.  The essential thing is not to give up.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32