Author Topic: A new level of evil?  (Read 4653 times)

Owlswing

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A new level of evil?
« on: June 23, 2015, 05:12:56 PM »


Just how low can some of the youth of this country descend.

Kids from an expensive private school and not the local comprehesive either!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/23/uk-teenagers-held-thefts-artefacts-auschwitz-museum
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 05:15:03 PM by Nathaniel Jesus Scrote p a to Lord Lucifer of Hades »
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Rhiannon

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2015, 05:42:37 PM »
They'd picked up things from the floor thinking they'd make souvenirs apparently. Speaks volumes as to their sense of entitlement and lack of sensitivity but it's hardly evil. Just a bit thick.

Nearly Sane

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2015, 05:50:38 PM »


Just how low can some of the youth of this country descend.

Kids from an expensive private school and not the local comprehesive either!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/23/uk-teenagers-held-thefts-artefacts-auschwitz-museum

Why the shock that this was the rich kids? Not that I subscribe to thinking they are necessarily worse but you seem hugely dismissive of comp kids here.

Shaker

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2015, 06:12:51 PM »
I agree with Rhi.

Evil was what created a place such as Auschwitz in the first place. This pair of prats were simply thoughtless, mindless and, as the lady said, thick.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2015, 06:40:44 PM »
I agree with Rhi.

Evil was what created a place such as Auschwitz in the first place. This pair of prats were simply thoughtless, mindless and, as the lady said, thick.

I agree.  If evil is something which is profoundly wicked or immoral, then the camps were just the embodiment of evil.  This behaviour is just cretinous and, as said, thick, but hardly comparable.
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Owlswing

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 08:33:32 PM »


Just how low can some of the youth of this country descend.

Kids from an expensive private school and not the local comprehesive either!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/23/uk-teenagers-held-thefts-artefacts-auschwitz-museum

Why the shock that this was the rich kids? Not that I subscribe to thinking they are necessarily worse but you seem hugely dismissive of comp kids here.

Sorry - Take a look at the world and where the denizens of such schools tend to end up.

In positions of superiority by right of birth - considered to have been brought up to those positions almost from birth, to have been given high standards of behaviour etc with their mother's milk.

Oh, I expect to find them drunk and pissing on the populace from a high balcony and using the law of the land to thieve from others, not this kind of thievery.
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Owlswing

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 08:41:38 PM »
Rhi, Shaker, BA

Why the horror?

Regardless of any other considerations the entire Auschwitz complex is a War Memorial, a memorial to all those of various races, religions, etc who died there.

What they picked up, regardless of what it was or where they found it, it was part of that memorial and by taking things their actions were, in my mind, desecration of that memorial - the same as spraying graffiti on the Cenotaph.

As many who died at Auschwitz were Polish, these boys will find out how the Poles feel about what they have done when they find out that they face a maximium sentence, if found guilty, of 15 years!
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Shaker

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2015, 08:45:08 PM »
Rhi, Shaker, BA

Why the horror?

Regardless of any other considerations the entire Auschwitz complex is a War Memorial, a memorial to all those of various races, religions, etc who died there.

What they picked up, regardless of what it was or where they found it, it was part of that memorial and by taking things their actions were, in my mind, desecration of that memorial - the same as spraying graffiti on the Cenotaph.

As many who died at Auschwitz were Polish, these boys will find out how the Poles feel about what they have done when they find out that they face a maximium sentence, if found guilty, of 15 years!

Regarding your example of desecration of a war memorial, i.e. spraying graffiti on the Cenotaph:

AFAIC Rhi, Bashers and I are singing from the same hymn sheet, which is to say, trying to keep this in some sort of perspective. What they did was stupid and thoughtless but the action of a pair of idiotic teenagers, not on a par with Himmler. Graffiti on the Cenotaph can be scrubbed off in a few minutes. Let's keep things in proportion here.
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Hope

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 08:55:49 PM »
Sorry - Take a look at the world and where the denizens of such schools tend to end up.
As a product of a minor public school myself, I find this obnoxious, Nathaniel.  Yes, there are many people in banking, politics, business, etc. who come from this type of school - but then there are also many people in politics and business who don't.  I also know of a lot of alumni of such schools who are working abroad for charities - both International and National; as well as in education, health, welfare, prison reform, ... in other words the whole gammut of working experience.  As such, the vast majority are no different to the vast majority of state school alumni.

Quote
In positions of superiority by right of birth - considered to have been brought up to those positions almost from birth, to have been given high standards of behaviour etc with their mother's milk.
You have clearly had limited experience of such pupils.  Yes, there are those who seem to feel that society owes them a living (but the same can be said of a comparable proportion of state schools pupils), but many come from backgrounds whereby parents have chosen to put their children through a good education at the expense of expensive holidays, personal treats, and other home comforts which many people take for granted.

Quote
Oh, I expect to find them drunk and pissing on the populace from a high balcony and using the law of the land to thieve from others, not this kind of thievery.
In other words, you expect them to behave like most kids tend to behave at some stage of their lives.

To return to the OP, it's worth pointing out that 'Museum curators say some visitors try to pilfer artefacts as souvenirs.'  This nothing new, and suggests that these two were no different from other people, adults included.
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Hope

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2015, 08:58:34 PM »
As many who died at Auschwitz were Polish, these boys will find out how the Poles feel about what they have done when they find out that they face a maximium sentence, if found guilty, of 15 years!
Oddly enough, Nath, the article you link to starts off by stating that "Two British schoolboys arrested at Auschwitz have each received a year’s probation, suspended for three years, and a 1,000 zloty (£170) fine after admitting stealing artefacts from the former Nazi death camp.".  Slightly different from your worst-case scenario.
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Rhiannon

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2015, 09:02:53 PM »
I live not far from the Perse. It's a good school and the kids who come from it are generally good kids, not the kids of outrageous privilege but from families who work in well-paid positions in the university, medicine and biotech industry. It's no Eton.

jeremyp

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2015, 09:17:57 PM »
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A new level of evil?

One level of evil is trying to eliminate an ethnic group by rounding them up, putting them in cattle trucks and sending them off to labour camps and gas chambers.

Where does this new level rank in comparison to that? 
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Nearly Sane

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2015, 09:30:05 PM »
Plus of course you could expect comprehensive kids to maybe reach this new depth of evil, but the shock is that appears to be rich kids who while ready to piss randomly on people just lack the ability to be beyond the holocaust in evil that a comp kid has.



Floo

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2015, 08:52:59 AM »
I don't know what the school the kids attend have to do with anything? ::) Their actions were stupid in the extreme, and I hope they are made to realise how shocking and offensive they were!

Rhiannon

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2015, 09:07:05 AM »
I think a night in Polish youth detention plus the possibility of getting a lengthy jail sentence will have scared the whatsits out of them.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2015, 11:50:37 AM »


Just how low can some of the youth of this country descend.

Kids from an expensive private school and not the local comprehesive either!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/23/uk-teenagers-held-thefts-artefacts-auschwitz-museum

Why the shock that this was the rich kids? Not that I subscribe to thinking they are necessarily worse but you seem hugely dismissive of comp kids here.

I must admit I thought that too.
Likewise.

Rhiannon

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2015, 12:31:06 PM »
What Matt seems to be saying is that comp kids aren't above nicking a few things whereas private school kids piss on everyone else.

Which isn't exactly fair to either.

Rhiannon

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2015, 12:34:35 PM »
I live not far from the Perse. It's a good school and the kids who come from it are generally good kids, not the kids of outrageous privilege but from families who work in well-paid positions in the university, medicine and biotech industry. It's no Eton.

I don't think they thought about it, a few buttons and a spoon probably seemed harmless souvenirs at the time.

Young people don't always respect history in the way perhaps an older generation does.  History is something you read about in books to a fair number of people, the past is gone, so doesn't matter, to youngsters history isn't "real" in many ways, so they don't get the bit about damaging it.

I visited Pompei and both me and my husband were horrified at some of the other tourists who allowed their kids to climb all over it and actually remove stones from the walls, we would have gone ballistic if our kids had done such a thing, but not everyone feels the same about places.

To some people the death camps are just a part of history which has gone, so the respect isn't there. So you get people trying to nick the sign because they think it would be a trendy sort of thing to have.

Its like people who break off a stalagtite when visiting caves.

However the young don't always think about what they do, and older people ought to know better.

It's not so much evil, as incredibly thoughtless.

Apparently one of the boys had done work experience in a museum. It seems he has an interest in old artefacts and I wouldn't mind betting that like many collectors and metal detectorists he doesn't appreciate the importance of context.

Owlswing

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2015, 04:16:51 PM »
What Matt seems to be saying is that comp kids aren't above nicking a few things whereas private school kids piss on everyone else.

Which isn't exactly fair to either.

I may well have not put the point as well as I might - we are always  given to understand that these kind of schools only take in and put out the very best pupils, taught the highest standards of education and behaviiour.

And - to Hope - yes they got off with probabtion but the maximum sentence for what they did is, not 15, but 10 years imprisonment.

OK - I will, as above, agree that I put my point badly, about as badly as I possibly could, but the stolen artifacts are part of the memorial that is the Auschwitz museum and the people who took those items to Auschwitz died there; would all those who have made comments here condone the theft of items from a relatives coffin?

Remote as the possibility might be there is a chance, a slim one maybe, but a chance nevertheless, that any one of the items they picked up could have belonged to one of my family (Dutch Jews) who died there. 
 
But Hell! They are British schoolchildren so heaven forbid they should have done anything wrong - stupid yes - wrong no!
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

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Nearly Sane

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2015, 04:20:14 PM »
 No one has condoned it, so I suggest you apologise for stating that they have.

Ricky Spanish

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2015, 04:40:51 PM »
Stupid? Yes.

Wrong? Yes.

A new level of evil? No.

To suggest that it is would appear to diminish the greater evil that was done on that site.
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Owlswing

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2015, 04:46:05 PM »
No one has condoned it, so I suggest you apologise for stating that they have.

Apologise?

You must be joking - look back over the posts and find one that condemns the boys actions as anthing but "stupid".
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2015, 04:47:46 PM »
Stupid? Yes.

Wrong? Yes.

A new level of evil? No.

To suggest that it is would appear to diminish the greater evil that was done on that site.

Nothing can diminish the evil done but actions like those of these boys only adds grave-robbing to it!
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!

Ricky Spanish

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2015, 04:49:57 PM »
So why call this "a new level of evil?" as if this was potentially evil of a magnitude never witnessed before?
UNDERSTAND - I MAKE OPINIONS. IF YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE ME QUESTION MY OPINION THEN I WILL CONSIDER THEM.

Nearly Sane

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Re: A new level of evil?
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2015, 04:55:09 PM »
 :-X
No one has condoned it, so I suggest you apologise for stating that they have.
Apologise?

You must be joking - look back over the posts and find one that condemns the boys actions as anthing but "stupid".

And that isn't condoning it. Stop lying about people