Author Topic: A war on gay persons still at school  (Read 9681 times)

Owlswing

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A war on gay persons still at school
« on: August 23, 2015, 08:23:06 PM »
OK - I am not supposed to be posting for at least another week due to the medication I am taking, I am not supposed to get "wound-up", bad for the heart apparently when taking these particular pills.

However, I read this article and found it truly disturbing, not from the fact that it shows just how widespread gay-phobia is in America, but by the possibility that it also exists here in the UK 

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-hidden-war-against-gay-teens-20131010

I know the article is somewhat aged, but I know that most American ideas, sooner or later, percolate across the Oggin and I really cannot see this partucular American attitude and behaviour being widely accepted or implemented here, this mght just be the rose-coloured "us Brits ain't like that" attitude, but does anyone else think that it might do so, and to what extent and depth.

I will read the responses to this post, with great interest, but will probably follow advice and not comment for at least the next week or so until the medical restrictions placed on me have been lifted.
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Hope

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2015, 08:42:00 PM »
Whilst I admit to having not done a huge amount of teaching in schools lately, the experience I have had of youth clubs, and especially bullying taking place at school that has been reported to me as a youth club leader, it would still seem to be predominantly racist and sexist.  Yes, I have had a few cases of sexuality-based bullying (including one case of a heterosexual girl being bullied by a group of lesbian classmates).  In fact, I would suggest that, parallelling UKIP's growth in popularity, so the cases of racist bullying has risen again.  The problem is sometimes that the same person can get bullied for more than one reason, thus making a core problem difficult to isolate.  This is, in part, why I believe that the practice of dividing the bullying into type can sometimes be counter-productive.  I would much rather concentrate on 'outing' the bullies and dealing with their issues without necessarily broadcasting what they are.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2015, 10:05:38 PM »
Whilst I admit to having not done a huge amount of teaching in schools lately, the experience I have had of youth clubs, and especially bullying taking place at school that has been reported to me as a youth club leader, it would still seem to be predominantly racist and sexist.  Yes, I have had a few cases of sexuality-based bullying (including one case of  a heterosexual girl being bullied by a group of lesbian classmates).  In fact, I would suggest that, parallelling UKIP's growth in popularity, so the cases of racist bullying has risen again.  The problem is sometimes that the same person can get bullied for more than one reason, thus making a core problem difficult to isolate.  This is, in part, why I believe that the practice of dividing the bullying into type can sometimes be counter-productive.  I would much rather concentrate on 'outing' the bullies and dealing with their issues without necessarily broadcasting what they are.

Might help to not equate gay s*x to murder as you have done multiple times in the past.

Nearly Sane

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2015, 10:06:29 PM »
Asterisk in sex because of weird forum software

Rhiannon

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2015, 10:12:57 PM »
It's built in the hosting, I think, NS.

Although 'sex' is usually ok. It's context that seems to be the issue.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 10:18:58 PM by Rhiannon »

Trentvoyager

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2015, 11:04:34 PM »
Quote
Yes, I have had a few cases of sexuality-based bullying (including one case of a heterosexual girl being bullied by a group of lesbian classmates). 

Oooh look another anecdote from Hope about homosexuality that just happens to be negative.

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Owlswing

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 11:16:56 PM »
Whilst I admit to having not done a huge amount of teaching in schools lately, the experience I have had of youth clubs, and especially bullying taking place at school that has been reported to me as a youth club leader, it would still seem to be predominantly racist and sexist.  Yes, I have had a few cases of sexuality-based bullying (including one case of a heterosexual girl being bullied by a group of lesbian classmates).  In fact, I would suggest that, parallelling UKIP's growth in popularity, so the cases of racist bullying has risen again.  The problem is sometimes that the same person can get bullied for more than one reason, thus making a core problem difficult to isolate.  This is, in part, why I believe that the practice of dividing the bullying into type can sometimes be counter-productive.  I would much rather concentrate on 'outing' the bullies and dealing with their issues without necessarily broadcasting what they are.

Thanks for the total derail, Hope - but then I should not have expected anything else from you!

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OH MY WORLD!

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2015, 12:38:58 AM »
NO DERAIL!, Hope, as a teacher, has come across bullying in your UK schools. Get it? It's not just an American thingy. The fact is bullying in UK secondary schools happens to be the worst in Europe.

Anchorman

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2015, 08:35:11 AM »
If a child is different,  they will be a target for bullies.
It doesn't matter whether that difference is race, sex, disability, whatever - there will be some form of discrimination practiced by a core element in any school.
With any luck, that is restriced to jibes and verbal abuse, but in extreme cases, can lead to violence and physical abuse* leading to attempted suicide.
Whilst I applaude measures put in place by teaching staff to impliment anti-bullying strategy, we need to remain watchful, because eradicating bullying inside the school gates might just exacerbate it outside the school gates.
I doubt that any measures will end this phenomenon.

* - I was physically, as well as verbally, bullied at school - because I was different.
So was a fellow disabled student in an able-bodied school - a girl forced to walk with leg calipers.
That was nothing compared to the vile racist stuff aimed at the two black pupils in a 1700-strong academy comp.
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Hope

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2015, 08:46:44 AM »
Might help to not equate gay s*x to murder as you have done multiple times in the past.
But I have also equated it to lying, failing to fulfill promises, cheating and many other forms of what society would regard as low-level wrong-doing, NS.  Its only people like you who seem determined to equate it specifically to more high-level wrong-doing.

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Hope

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 08:49:26 AM »
Oooh look another anecdote from Hope about homosexuality that just happens to be negative.
Oh, so it's alright for gays and lesbians to bully heterosexuals, but not vikki verca.  In case you hadn't noticed, this was actually a comment acknowledging the fact that sexuality-based bullying occurs, but not always one-way.
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Trentvoyager

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 08:50:22 AM »
Oooh look another anecdote from Hope about homosexuality that just happens to be negative.
Oh, so it's alright for gays and lesbians to bully heterosexuals, but not vikki verca.  In case you hadn't noticed, this was actually a comment acknowledging the fact that sexuality-based bullying occurs, but not always one-way.

That is not what I said.
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Hope

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 08:52:55 AM »
Thanks for the total derail, Hope - but then I should not have expected anything else from you!
What derail?  I thought this thread was about bullying and in particular a suggestion that 'gay'-bullying is common.   Is it not possible to suggest that, whilst it occurs, it is perhaps still not as common as some of the other forms of bullying.  What's the important thing: that society combats bullying, or that society combats 'gay'-bullying?
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Hope

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2015, 08:57:34 AM »
That is not what I said.
It is, trent.  You stated that a comment that acknowledges sexuality-based bullying is negative towards homosexuality on the grounds that I used an example to highlight the fact that it happens both hetero- on homosexual, and also the other way round.  In other words, we are seeing victims of such bullying of both types of sexual orientation.

If you wish to ignore the latter, that is your perogative.
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Trentvoyager

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 09:00:56 AM »
That is not what I said.
It is, trent.  You stated that a comment that acknowledges sexuality-based bullying is negative towards homosexuality on the grounds that I used an example to highlight the fact that it happens both hetero- on homosexual, and also the other way round.  In other words, we are seeing victims of such bullying of both types of sexual orientation.

If you wish to ignore the latter, that is your perogative.

It is not. I pointed out that as always you had a negative anecdote about gay people. At no point did I state or imply that gay people could not be bullies. You really should learn to read for comprehension.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 09:08:52 AM »
Might help to not equate gay s*x to murder as you have done multiple times in the past.
But I have also equated it to lying, failing to fulfill promises, cheating and many other forms of what society would regard as low-level wrong-doing, NS.  Its only people like you who seem determined to equate it specifically to more high-level wrong-doing.

I am not so equating it  and have never so equated it - you have in your own posts - stop lying

Shaker

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 09:13:42 AM »
That is not what I said.
It is, trent.  You stated that a comment that acknowledges sexuality-based bullying is negative towards homosexuality on the grounds that I used an example to highlight the fact that it happens both hetero- on homosexual, and also the other way round.  In other words, we are seeing victims of such bullying of both types of sexual orientation.

If you wish to ignore the latter, that is your perogative.

It is not. I pointed out that as always you had a negative anecdote about gay people. At no point did I state or imply that gay people could not be bullies. You really should learn to read for comprehension.
The scare quotes around the word gay are a bit of a giveaway, aren't they?
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Floo

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2015, 09:22:45 AM »
Anyone who believes homosexuality is wrong, even if they don't go as far as bullying gays, needs to change their attitude PDQ! Being prejudiced against someone for no better reason than they are attracted to people of the same sex is WRONG, and excusing their bigotry using the not so good book is very nasty indeed! >:(

A banned poster, who laughingly called himself a 'Christian', said he wouldn't coach gays, and would turn a blind eye if anyone duffed them up! >:(
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Leonard James

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2015, 09:26:27 AM »
What's the important thing: that society combats bullying, or that society combats 'gay'-bullying?

Any kind of bullying against a minority group whose behaviour is not antisocial is wrong, and must be combated.

Nearly Sane

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2015, 09:48:03 AM »
What's the important thing: that society combats bullying, or that society combats 'gay'-bullying?

Any kind of bullying against a minority group whose behaviour is not antisocial is wrong, and must be combated.

Though the means in which to combat different types of bullying may well be different.

Outrider

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 09:52:54 AM »
Bullying needs to be dealt with, full stop, not just for sexuality reasons.

Yes. In my experience, the people being bullied are the ones that people feel they can bully - then they find a reason (race, hair-colour, sexuality, they smell..) or they just make one up. You can limit the opportunities with teaching about equality, perhaps, but essentially the pack mentality is part of the childhood psyche. It's not nice, but it's there.

Quote
Schools often " wash there hands of it" saying if it doesn't happen on school premises or they don't see it it isn't their problem.

What are they supposed to do? They have no remit outside of their own grounds. That's what parents are there for, and there are more than enough instances of parents not supporting the schools when the incidents occur in the schools.

Quote
They appear to be stubbornly blind even when there are witnesses.

Four ten year olds making one claim vs four ten year olds making another claim - how does the school pick sides?

Quote
I wasn't impressed with the way bullying was dealt with at my sons school. Denial seemed to be the only thing that was done by teaching staff.

There are bad schools out there, there are times when schools would rather not have bullying incidents on file than deal with the issue so they don't have bullying incidents happening, but they aren't the majority.

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Gordon

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 10:07:22 AM »
Might help to not equate gay s*x to murder as you have done multiple times in the past.
But I have also equated it to lying, failing to fulfill promises, cheating and many other forms of what society would regard as low-level wrong-doing, NS.  Its only people like you who seem determined to equate it specifically to more high-level wrong-doing.

That you are here quite brazenly equating what sexually-active consenting homosexual adults do with 'low-level wrong-doing' astonishes me - it confirms, as if it needed confirming, that some elements within Christianity are intrinsically homophobic no matter how much they bleat that they aren't.

There is a bright side though - since attitudes like this are no doubt assisting the on-going decline of Christianity.
 

Outrider

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 10:32:24 AM »
Might help to not equate gay s*x to murder as you have done multiple times in the past.
But I have also equated it to lying, failing to fulfill promises, cheating and many other forms of what society would regard as low-level wrong-doing, NS.  Its only people like you who seem determined to equate it specifically to more high-level wrong-doing.

Why are you equating it to those things at all? Who is being harmed if two consenting adults choose to fondle each other's similar genitals in the privacy of their own home? Who is being deceived or betrayed by someone holding their lover's hand in the street?

O.
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Shaker

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 10:34:28 AM »
I await a reply with interest.

Mind you, I'm still waiting for what Hope thinks were/are the "good reasons" why "homosexuality was viewed with revulsion through history and across cultures," and that's been weeks now.
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Owlswing

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Re: A war on gay persons still at school
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2015, 10:50:55 AM »
Thanks for the total derail, Hope - but then I should not have expected anything else from you!
What derail?  I thought this thread was about bullying and in particular a suggestion that 'gay'-bullying is common.   Is it not possible to suggest that, whilst it occurs, it is perhaps still not as common as some of the other forms of bullying.  What's the important thing: that society combats bullying, or that society combats 'gay'-bullying?

You, Hope, are just about the most devious and unpleasant Christian I have had the misfortune to come into contact with, except one.

The thread is NOT "about bullying and in particular a suggestion that 'gay'-bullying is common" - much as you WANT it to be!

It is about CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS and CHRISTIAN PARENTS throwing out gay studens and children from school and family merely because they ARE gay!

Now talk about the subject of the thread and not your overweaning need to defend the indefensible actions of your fellow Christians!

Your response shows that the attitudes demonstrated in the article are here, in the UK, and you are one of its supporters!

And, of course, Johnny Canoe has to protect his neighbours by trying to direct attention away from the US to the UK and Europe, another Christian who has forgortten how to be human when his religion falls short in its humanity!

« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 11:02:54 AM by CMG KCMG GCMG »
If there must be trouble let it be in my time that my children may have peace. Thomas Payne

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some do what you must!