Author Topic: Common Sense  (Read 1365 times)

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25590
    • Tools With A Mission
Common Sense
« on: September 15, 2015, 08:08:53 AM »
Over the months the importance or role of common sense has been alluded to here several times, and in the BBC's current Artificial Intelligence 'season' people have been talking about the need to be able to imbue robots with 'common sense' before general AI can really begin to take off.

How would folk here define 'common sense' in this context?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2015, 08:21:29 AM »
Common sense is presumably the ability not to do or say daft things.

Unfortunately, there is no consensus on what are daft things, so common sense becomes undefinable.

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25590
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 08:47:48 AM »
Common sense is presumably the ability not to do or say daft things.

Unfortunately, there is no consensus on what are daft things, so common sense becomes undefinable.
So, are you saying that, realistically, 'General AI', as opposed to 'narrow AI' is ultimately unachievable?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20214
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 08:55:37 AM »
Common sense is presumably the ability not to do or say daft things.

Unfortunately, there is no consensus on what are daft things, so common sense becomes undefinable.
So, are you saying that, realistically, 'General AI', as opposed to 'narrow AI' is ultimately unachievable?

How did you get from the one statement to the other? 
04W24W0W04100000W4 0000110W02000040100 0W00000000010100001 1W0011200010040040 000W1W3000000000000 0400000000000001004W
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may ap

Udayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3434
  • βε ηερε νοω
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 09:00:28 AM »
Common sense is presumably the ability not to do or say daft things.

Unfortunately, there is no consensus on what are daft things, so common sense becomes undefinable.

But haven't you just provided a definition?
We didn't start the fire...

BeRational

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7799
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 09:24:52 AM »
I would say it was the ability to predict outcomes from actions, and to know which outcomes are more desirable.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Outrider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11060
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 09:28:41 AM »
I would say it was the ability to predict outcomes from actions, and to know which outcomes are more desirable.

'Common Sense' is post hoc rationalisation - typically by neurotypicals - to justify lucky guesses and culturally historical inherited stories.

O.
Universes are forever, not just for creation...

New Atheism - because, apparently, there's a use-by date on unanswered questions.

Eminent Pedant, Interpreter of Heretical Writings, Unwarranted Harvester of Trite Nomenclature, Church of Debatable Saints

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 09:46:37 AM »
AI will know to always have a hanky and its bus fare home.

Trentvoyager

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3995
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 09:53:35 AM »
AI will know to always have a hanky and its bus fare home.

and just in case, clean underwear.
the more I hear & see of Boris Johnson & Jacob Rees Mogg, the more I am convinced that Eton should be in Special Measures.

Leonard James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12443
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 10:09:35 AM »
Common sense is presumably the ability not to do or say daft things.

Unfortunately, there is no consensus on what are daft things, so common sense becomes undefinable.

But haven't you just provided a definition?

Note the word "presumably".

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22805
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 10:22:44 AM »
Wiki is actually quite good on this but in terms of how anyone in an AI programme used it would need to know the context.

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 10:49:26 AM »
"It's common sense" means "I have no evidence at all to support my view and please do not try to enlighten me".

Common sense, innit!

I don't think that anyone would be able to instruct a robot to think like that.
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Floo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19054
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 01:44:33 PM »
Common sense would indicate that if you drop a brick and a tiny stone together, the brick being the much heavier object would hit the ground first, but of course they hit the ground at the same time!
"When I die I hope I will be remembered with humour by my nearest and dearest."

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25590
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 01:50:53 PM »
So, are you saying that, realistically, 'General AI', as opposed to 'narrow AI' is ultimately unachievable?

How did you get from the one statement to the other?
Len suggested that "Unfortunately, there is no consensus on what are daft things, so common sense becomes undefinable".  If common sense is indefinable, how do we create something or a process by which a robot could be imbued with something indefinable?  Obviously, I am taking my starting point what was said on this morning's BBC Breakfast by someone from Imperial College London - that without our having a means of imbuing common sense, a robot will not be able to be fully AI in the 'General' AI sense.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22805
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 01:57:12 PM »
]Len suggested that "Unfortunately, there is no consensus on what are daft things, so common sense becomes undefinable".  If common sense is indefinable, how do we create something or a process by which a robot could be imbued with something indefinable?  Obviously, I am taking my starting point what was said on this morning's BBC Breakfast by someone from Imperial College London - that without our having a means of imbuing common sense, a robot will not be able to be fully AI in the 'General' AI sense.
Which assumes that Len and whoever it was from Imperial are talking about the same thing. I think this is unlikely - I would suggest that the initial definition in Wiki is what the person from Imperial is more likely to be talking about.

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25590
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 02:49:37 PM »
Which assumes that Len and whoever it was from Imperial are talking about the same thing. I think this is unlikely - I would suggest that the initial definition in Wiki is what the person from Imperial is more likely to be talking about.
Well, the context of the thread was, I thought, fairly obvious.  I realise that some posters seem to have missed that completely.  Len doesn't generally miss contexts, so I was assuming that he hadn't this time.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2717
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2015, 03:20:03 PM »
Is this robot using her commonsense in replies to questions? ... http://tinyurl.com/pjrvveu
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 04:26:34 PM by ekim »

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25590
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2015, 03:40:02 PM »
ekim. could you run that URL through something like tinyurl.com or bitly.com so that it doesn't wreck the formatting of the page?  There are, I understand, some of our number for whom these long urls play havoc with their specialist software.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2717
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2015, 04:07:54 PM »
Sorry about that.  I don't know how to do what you suggest, but an easy alternative is to log on to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news   and down at the bottom of that page is the item 'Meet Erica - the robot just like a person.  Hope that helps.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22805
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2015, 04:08:22 PM »
Which assumes that Len and whoever it was from Imperial are talking about the same thing. I think this is unlikely - I would suggest that the initial definition in Wiki is what the person from Imperial is more likely to be talking about.
Well, the context of the thread was, I thought, fairly obvious.  I realise that some posters seem to have missed that completely.  Len doesn't generally miss contexts, so I was assuming that he hadn't this time.
How could Len grasp the context of an interview he hadn't seen and wasn't referred to in the OP. Indeed even after you have talked about it, how would anyone know what the Imperial wonk was meaning? Do you think he meant the not saying daft things as indicated by Len?

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22805
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2015, 04:12:00 PM »
Sorry about that.  I don't know how to do what you suggest, but an easy alternative is to log on to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news   and down at the bottom of that page is the item 'Meet Erica - the robot just like a person.  Hope that helps.


Go to this link http://tinyurl.com/

Paste your long link into field and click for tinyurl.
Copy that and paste back into your post with the long url.

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2717
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2015, 04:18:59 PM »
Yippee
http://tinyurl.com/pjrvveu

Thanks for that.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22805
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2015, 04:21:56 PM »
Yippee
http://tinyurl.com/pjrvveu

Thanks for that.

You need to do it for the post with the long link in it, while removing the long link, otherwise the formatting is still screwed if you view it from certain interfaces.

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2717
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2015, 04:27:12 PM »
Yippee
http://tinyurl.com/pjrvveu

Thanks for that.

You need to do it for the post with the long link in it, while removing the long link, otherwise the formatting is still screwed if you view it from certain interfaces.
Have I got it right now?

'andles for forks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20004
  • Science is a tool.
Re: Common Sense
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2015, 07:15:13 PM »
Over the months the importance or role of common sense has been alluded to here several times, and in the BBC's current Artificial Intelligence 'season' people have been talking about the need to be able to imbue robots with 'common sense' before general AI can really begin to take off.

How would folk here define 'common sense' in this context?
Common sense is not science and on occasions the two have been in contradiction to each other.
I like the ''made up in the fourth century'' hypothesis but I also like Bart Ehrman. There's only one way to sort this out. Use contradictory evidence as it suits your argument wheeeeyyyyy!