Heaven

[L.A.]

I always love the old Buddhist idea that people who have a strong religious faith might experience their idea of  'Paradise' for a limited period after their death.

The Christian enters the Pearly Gates to be greeted by Saint Peter and led through to "eat foie gras to the sound of trumpets" and generally enjoy the fruits of their righteousness, but just as they are starting to settle-in,  saffron robed figures grab them and drag them back to the material world to a copulating couple - their next parents 

[Hope]

I always love the old Buddhist idea that people who have a strong religious faith might experience their idea of  'Paradise' for a limited period after their death.

The Christian enters the Pearly Gates to be greeted by Saint Peter and led through to "eat foie gras to the sound of trumpets" and generally enjoy the fruits of their righteousness, but just as they are starting to settle-in,  saffron robed figures grab them and drag them back to the material world to a copulating couple - their next parents 

But that would only be the case if reincarnation actually occurs; what is more, since no-one in the East ever seems to want to be reincarnated as a woman, ...

[L.A.]

But that would only be the case if reincarnation actually occurs; what is more, since no-one in the East ever seems to want to be reincarnated as a woman, ...

Obviously, the whole idea of what happens to our consciousness after death is 'highly speculative' (to put it mildly). I find reincarnation the only reasonably feasible option, though of course, the 'Hard Atheists' will point-out that our consciousness resides in a material brain that will rapidly self-destruct after death.

Still, they can't account for 96% of whatever it is that makes up the universe so there is plenty of room for a soul to exist in. 

[Brownie]

Are you sure no-one in the East wants to be reincarnated as a woman, Hope?  Presumably, if there is such a thing as reincarnation, there would be no choice.  However there are plenty of powerful female deities in Hinduism and the Zoroastrians believe 100% in equality of the sexes.

[Steve H]

Wrong on the first account it is documentated in medical history in France of such a things happening. A man died of a heart attack and came back to life having gone to hell and shout to Jesus to save him.

He didn't die, or he wouldn't have come back to talk about it.

[torridon]

Obviously, the whole idea of what happens to our consciousness after death is 'highly speculative' (to put it mildly). I find reincarnation the only reasonably feasible option, though of course, the 'Hard Atheists' will point-out that our consciousness resides in a material brain that will rapidly self-destruct after death.

Our consciousness does not even survive falling asleep at night, it is that ephemeral, goodness knows how anyone could think it could survive the catastrophic cellular breakdown of death.

[Sassy]

He didn't die, or he wouldn't have come back to talk about it.

Sorry, SteveH,

The man was dead three hours he then descended into hell and in his fear he called our for Christ and he rescued him and sent him back to preach the gospel. I saw this man on television and I see no reason for anyone to doubt the medical reports.
You see there are others who have died and come back look at this one.

This is another incident of someone being raised from the dead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Wxbv-julc

[L.A.]

Our consciousness does not even survive falling asleep at night, it is that ephemeral, goodness knows how anyone could think it could survive the catastrophic cellular breakdown of death.

As far as I am aware, no one has actually come-up with a satisfactory definition of what 'consciousness' is!

We feel it, we know it, we ARE it - but what is it?

Certainly, the brain appears to be central, it connects 'us' to the material world, so no big surprise that 'we' are not present when the brain 'shuts down'.

If I were to do some theology/cosmology 'on the fly' I might hypothesis that a part of us consists as a 'clump of dark matter' that becomes attached  to living things.

[Harrowby Hall]

Sorry, SteveH,

The man was dead three hours he then descended into hell and in his fear he called our for Christ and he rescued him and sent him back to preach the gospel. I saw this man on television and I see no reason for anyone to doubt the medical reports.
You see there are others who have died and come back look at this one.

This is another incident of someone being raised from the dead...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Wxbv-julc

TV fiction for the credulous.

[Brownie]

Creepy too.  When I die I want to stay dead, thank you.

[Maeght]

TV fiction for the credulous.

Sells lots of books too.

[Sassy]

TV fiction for the credulous.

Hardly be on he News if fiction? HH, you have to make your own choices.

[Sebastian Toe]

Hardly be on he News if fiction? HH, you have to make your own choices.

Well, the moon landings were on the news so they could hardly be fiction then could they?
Just sayin' 

[Brownie]

Well maybe - but I am still puzzled by the many similarities people experience. It's a bit like that other dream/nightmare prevalent through a lot of cultures (forgotten what it is called but the crouching creature thingy)  why the similarities across different cultures.

I'm inclined to believe a NDE is a type of dream too, Trentvoyager and whilst there are cultural differences there are bound to be universal experiences because we are all human beings with emotions, fears, etc so we'll have a lot in common.  I wonder if anyone on here has had a lucid dream in which they thought they were awake?  Perhaps that's another subject but I wonder if a NDE is similar.

I've not seen any news reports of dead people returning to life, as opposed to near death experiences, nor any TV documentaries about them.  Maybe they are on obscure channels that I cannot access but I would watch or read if anyone pointed me in their direction.  My mind is not completely closed on the subject but I do find it somewhat disturbing and seriously do not want it to happen to me.

[Sriram]

Our consciousness does not even survive falling asleep at night, it is that ephemeral, goodness knows how anyone could think it could survive the catastrophic cellular breakdown of death.

Well...we do always remember having a good night's sleep! That requires consciousness. It is Consciousness that has experienced the good nights sleep. And the fact that you wake up as the same person you were before shows the consciousness did not really die during the sleep. It was merely unconnected. Like switching off the wifi. So...saying that Consciousness does not SURVIVE falling asleep is wrong.

Many people sleep walk..... when their subconscious/unconscious mind stays awake though the person does not remember the event. This shows part of our consciousness stays awake even when we sleep.  The Unconscious mind is part of our Consciousness. We cannot ignore it. 

[Sriram]

Are you sure no-one in the East wants to be reincarnated as a woman, Hope?  Presumably, if there is such a thing as reincarnation, there would be no choice.  However there are plenty of powerful female deities in Hinduism and the Zoroastrians believe 100% in equality of the sexes.

Hope has been in India and Nepal some decades ago as a missionary. He clearly was on a mission to convert and change (and presumably 'civilize') the East in line with Christian culture. His perception of all that is Hindu and Jain and Buddhist has been obviously coloured by that zeal and that sense of superiority.   

[Harrowby Hall]

Hardly be on he News if fiction? HH, you have to make your own choices.

Sassy, look at it again. The whole thing is anecdote. Where is there any reference to medical records? At one point there is determination of heart function by pulse but in another by ECG. The whole thing has "studio recreation" written all over it.

And what do you know about the TV station? Who owns it? What is its target audience?

TV for the credulous.

[Brownie]

Hope has been in India and Nepal some decades ago as a missionary. He clearly was on a mission to convert and change (and presumably 'civilize') the East in line with Christian culture. His perception of all that is Hindu and Jain and Buddhist has been obviously coloured by that zeal and that sense of superiority.   

Well, even in my lifetime and culture men were considered to be somewhat above women and it showed in all spheres of life:  education, work, property, marriage, you name it, and a lot of women supported all that.  When I first started working, men doing the same job earned more than woman and when I married in the mid-1970s and we bought our first house, the  building society would only count one year of my salary towards the mortgage.  It was very difficult for a single woman on an average salary to get a mortgage.  Women were also expected to wait on men, what's more most of our mothers thought that was right!  The first female news reader (Angela Rippon) was a really big deal, there were no women fire fighters and policewoman had to wear skirts despite being expected to run and climb over fences (never mind the male officers putting their hands up skirts to see if the women wore stockings or tights).   Seems scandalous now - but we in the West have no reason to crow, it was definitely a man's world not that long ago.

[Maeght]

Hardly be on he News if fiction? HH, you have to make your own choices.

They are reporting a sensational story, and it is clear that people in near death situations do have a story to tell, but that doesn't mean the story is accurate.

[L.A.]

They are reporting a sensational story, and it is clear that people in near death situations do have a story to tell, but that doesn't mean the story is accurate.

I strongly suspect that if you were the one who had lived through the experience it would be extremely real to you.

[Sassy]

Well, the moon landings were on the news so they could hardly be fiction then could they?
Just sayin' 

Until you have the ability and knowledge to prove by process they went to the moon. Should you be making comments you cannot support?

There is a difference between being unable to believe based on sound reasoning than to make statements of belief they went because you saw it on TV. I saw fireball XL5 on tv does that mean it really exists, or stingray...

Is that where all things you believe in come from? 

[Leonard James]

Until you have the ability and knowledge to prove by process they went to the moon. Should you be making comments you cannot support?

There is a difference between being unable to believe based on sound reasoning than to make statements of belief they went because you saw it on TV. I saw fireball XL5 on tv does that mean it really exists, or stingray...

Is that where all things you believe in come from? 

There is a lot of strong scientific evidence for the moon landings. There is none for god beliefs.

Believing far-fetched stories about "gods", and denying scientific evidence is not the way to go for reasoning minds.

[Maeght]

I strongly suspect that if you were the one who had lived through the experience it would be extremely real to you.

Of course its a real experience to them but that doesn't mean that they died, went to hell and came back. That seems obvious from what I have said - so not sure what point you were making really.

[Maeght]

Until you have the ability and knowledge to prove by process they went to the moon. Should you be making comments you cannot support?

There is a difference between being unable to believe based on sound reasoning than to make statements of belief they went because you saw it on TV. I saw fireball XL5 on tv does that mean it really exists, or stingray...

Is that where all things you believe in come from? 

The point was that you said they wouldn't have put it on the TV news if it wasn't true however you don't think man went to the moon but this appeared on the TV news.

[Sebastian Toe]

Until you have the ability and knowledge to prove by process they went to the moon. Should you be making comments you cannot support

Unless you have the ability and knowledge to disprove the process by which they went to the moon. Should you be making comments you cannot support?

Thought not!