Author Topic: Angels  (Read 6110 times)

Alan Burns

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Angels
« on: November 08, 2015, 11:13:29 PM »
A few weeks ago my wife and I were hosting a meal with two other Christian couples.  A piece of Bible text we discussed was the quote from Jesus that we all have Angels in heaven.  Our friend Helen seemed very moved by this reading, saying she had never come across it before.

Helen came up to us today after Mass to share something she had kept secret for twenty years.  It was twenty years ago when she was diagnosed with Multiple-Sclerosis, and she recalled walking down Stockton High Street in bright sunshine thinking about the warning she had just been given that her sight might soon fail due to MS.  She was looking at all the wonderful colours in the sunshine thinking soon she may never see them again in such vivid glory.

She was passing someone doing a street collection, and as she put her hand out to give a donation, the person took hold of her arm and said just one sentence: "Don't worry, your sight will never fail".  Helen was so frightened by this she walked quickly away, but then retraced her steps to try to speak to this person, but when she looked the person was gone.

Helen now needs to walk with crutches due to the MS, but her sight is still intact twenty years later.  Was it an angel sent to reassure her?
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

BeRational

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Re: Angels
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2015, 12:37:25 AM »
Almost certainly not.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Bubbles

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Re: Angels
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2015, 12:39:52 AM »

Floo

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Re: Angels
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2015, 08:42:00 AM »
As I have mentioned before I had what can only have been a dream, which I had when I was a very young child. I was one of the angels in heaven, but was instructed by the deity to do a stint on earth, so here I am! ;D ;D ;D
“The wise recognise their failings and laugh at their idiosyncrasies” RJG

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Angels
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2015, 09:44:22 AM »

She was passing someone doing a street collection, and as she put her hand out to give a donation, the person took hold of her arm and said just one sentence: "Don't worry, your sight will never fail".  Helen was so frightened by this she walked quickly away, but then retraced her steps to try to speak to this person, but when she looked the person was gone.

Helen now needs to walk with crutches due to the MS, but her sight is still intact twenty years later.  Was it an angel sent to reassure her?

Oh dear.

We really must get used to the fact that memory is not veridical. Much of what we "remember" is a construction combining incidents which did happen with information from other sources affected by motivations and opinions.

Memories are not passive recollections stored in mental filing cabinets. They are constantly being edited, integrated with new information and experiences, revised by conflicting information and so forth. There is a mass of research findings in psychology and neuroscience about the nature and reliability of memory.

In your friend's case she may have "invented" this memory or it may be the result of incidents which really happened but which were affected by her state of mind at the time: a small set of events were perceived by her - because of her personal concerns and hopes - as being favourable in their outcome. And the interpretations she placed on them were influenced by her own motives and hopes.

However, it is real to her. But that is the nature of memory...

Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Rhiannon

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Re: Angels
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2015, 10:21:39 AM »
I'm glad your friend finds comfort in this.

And I also wonder which charity the collection was for.

Floo

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Re: Angels
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2015, 11:36:09 AM »
I'm glad your friend finds comfort in this.

And I also wonder which charity the collection was for.

Gullibles Anonymous! ;D

Alan Burns will have fun with this experience of mine.

When I was 11 I decided to do some fishing. Without telling my parents, I cycled to one of the bays in my home island, and clambered onto some rocks and began fishing with my home made rod and line; a safety pin as a hook! I failed to see the tide coming in leaving the rock I was on surrounded by water, with a jump of about 4ft or so to safety. I was beginning to panic, if I had fallen into the sea I would probably have drowned as the currents in that area are very strong. Suddenly a man appeared on the rock beside me, coming from apparently nowhere. Without a word he picked me up and jumped the gap. When I turned around to thank him, he had gone! I grabbed my bike and pedalled home as fast as my legs could manage it! I didn't dare tell my parents of my escapade as that would earn me another good thrashing for total stupidity! :o

To this day I still can't work out if I imagined that man had rescued me as it seems so unreal!
“The wise recognise their failings and laugh at their idiosyncrasies” RJG

Alan Burns

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Re: Angels
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2015, 12:42:05 PM »
I'm glad your friend finds comfort in this.

And I also wonder which charity the collection was for.

Gullibles Anonymous! ;D

Alan Burns will have fun with this experience of mine.

When I was 11 I decided to do some fishing. Without telling my parents, I cycled to one of the bays in my home island, and clambered onto some rocks and began fishing with my home made rod and line; a safety pin as a hook! I failed to see the tide coming in leaving the rock I was on surrounded by water, with a jump of about 4ft or so to safety. I was beginning to panic, if I had fallen into the sea I would probably have drowned as the currents in that area are very strong. Suddenly a man appeared on the rock beside me, coming from apparently nowhere. Without a word he picked me up and jumped the gap. When I turned around to thank him, he had gone! I grabbed my bike and pedalled home as fast as my legs could manage it! I didn't dare tell my parents of my escapade as that would earn me another good thrashing for total stupidity! :o

To this day I still can't work out if I imagined that man had rescued me as it seems so unreal!
This reminds me of when my wife and I were stranded on a sandbank off a beach in the Algarve with the tide coming in.  A young man was also stranded, and we watched as he tried to wade across holding his rucsack above his head.  He soon came into difficulties and to our alarm he seemed to be getting swept out to sea.  Then literally out of the blue came a man in a rowing boat, rescued the young man and took us all to dry land.

I also recall the testimony of a young Christian woman who became lost in a very dangerous place in the middle east - I can't remember where.  She found herself alone in a no go area with a curfew in place and heard the sound of gunfire.  She found a place to hide, but was terrified when a man came and took her hand.  The man then guided her through the city to her destination, with no military in sight.

It would seem that angels may not have wings, but they were sent to help.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

Alan Burns

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Re: Angels
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2015, 12:44:02 PM »
Almost certainly not.
You said "Almost".  Could this be a chink of hope?   :)
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

Rhiannon

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Re: Angels
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2015, 12:49:20 PM »
I'm glad your friend finds comfort in this.

And I also wonder which charity the collection was for.

Gullibles Anonymous! ;D

Alan Burns will have fun with this experience of mine.

When I was 11 I decided to do some fishing. Without telling my parents, I cycled to one of the bays in my home island, and clambered onto some rocks and began fishing with my home made rod and line; a safety pin as a hook! I failed to see the tide coming in leaving the rock I was on surrounded by water, with a jump of about 4ft or so to safety. I was beginning to panic, if I had fallen into the sea I would probably have drowned as the currents in that area are very strong. Suddenly a man appeared on the rock beside me, coming from apparently nowhere. Without a word he picked me up and jumped the gap. When I turned around to thank him, he had gone! I grabbed my bike and pedalled home as fast as my legs could manage it! I didn't dare tell my parents of my escapade as that would earn me another good thrashing for total stupidity! :o

To this day I still can't work out if I imagined that man had rescued me as it seems so unreal!

Floo, my point was that the person collecting could have commented about sight because they were collecting for a charity related to sight or possibly ageing. But if it brings someone comfort then why not?

Alan Burns

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Re: Angels
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2015, 12:55:02 PM »
I'm glad your friend finds comfort in this.

And I also wonder which charity the collection was for.
She said it terrified her.
It is only in the last week that she has had the courage to speak about it, following our discussion implying that angels are real.  She can't recall the charity, and did not see the person face to face, though she felt that the person may have been a gypsy.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32

Rhiannon

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Re: Angels
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2015, 01:02:09 PM »
I'm glad your friend finds comfort in this.

And I also wonder which charity the collection was for.
She said it terrified her.
It is only in the last week that she has had the courage to speak about it, following our discussion implying that angels are real.  She can't recall the charity, and did not see the person face to face, though she felt that the person may have been a gypsy.

She would have been in a state of high anxiety anyway so far more susceptible to a chance remark setting off a frightened reaction. Then her memory has added or changed details according to her feelings.

I'm assuming that now to believe it was an angel is comforting?

Floo

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Re: Angels
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2015, 01:17:41 PM »
I'm glad your friend finds comfort in this.

And I also wonder which charity the collection was for.

Gullibles Anonymous! ;D

Alan Burns will have fun with this experience of mine.

When I was 11 I decided to do some fishing. Without telling my parents, I cycled to one of the bays in my home island, and clambered onto some rocks and began fishing with my home made rod and line; a safety pin as a hook! I failed to see the tide coming in leaving the rock I was on surrounded by water, with a jump of about 4ft or so to safety. I was beginning to panic, if I had fallen into the sea I would probably have drowned as the currents in that area are very strong. Suddenly a man appeared on the rock beside me, coming from apparently nowhere. Without a word he picked me up and jumped the gap. When I turned around to thank him, he had gone! I grabbed my bike and pedalled home as fast as my legs could manage it! I didn't dare tell my parents of my escapade as that would earn me another good thrashing for total stupidity! :o

To this day I still can't work out if I imagined that man had rescued me as it seems so unreal!
This reminds me of when my wife and I were stranded on a sandbank off a beach in the Algarve with the tide coming in.  A young man was also stranded, and we watched as he tried to wade across holding his rucsack above his head.  He soon came into difficulties and to our alarm he seemed to be getting swept out to sea.  Then literally out of the blue came a man in a rowing boat, rescued the young man and took us all to dry land.

I also recall the testimony of a young Christian woman who became lost in a very dangerous place in the middle east - I can't remember where.  She found herself alone in a no go area with a curfew in place and heard the sound of gunfire.  She found a place to hide, but was terrified when a man came and took her hand.  The man then guided her through the city to her destination, with no military in sight.

It would seem that angels may not have wings, but they were sent to help.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm! I am sure there is a much more down to earth explanation! More often than not 'angels' don't put in an appearance when required!
“The wise recognise their failings and laugh at their idiosyncrasies” RJG

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Angels
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2015, 02:34:27 PM »
As I have mentioned before I had what can only have been a dream, which I had when I was a very young child. I was one of the angels in heaven, but was instructed by the deity to do a stint on earth, so here I am! ;D ;D ;D

Not the only "vision" you've had, eh?
BA.

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SweetPea

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Re: Angels
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2015, 05:13:07 PM »
A few weeks ago my wife and I were hosting a meal with two other Christian couples.  A piece of Bible text we discussed was the quote from Jesus that we all have Angels in heaven.  Our friend Helen seemed very moved by this reading, saying she had never come across it before.

Helen came up to us today after Mass to share something she had kept secret for twenty years.  It was twenty years ago when she was diagnosed with Multiple-Sclerosis, and she recalled walking down Stockton High Street in bright sunshine thinking about the warning she had just been given that her sight might soon fail due to MS.  She was looking at all the wonderful colours in the sunshine thinking soon she may never see them again in such vivid glory.

She was passing someone doing a street collection, and as she put her hand out to give a donation, the person took hold of her arm and said just one sentence: "Don't worry, your sight will never fail".  Helen was so frightened by this she walked quickly away, but then retraced her steps to try to speak to this person, but when she looked the person was gone.

Helen now needs to walk with crutches due to the MS, but her sight is still intact twenty years later.  Was it an angel sent to reassure her?

Alan, are you familiar with the book 'Angels' by Hope Price? Hope, married to an Anglican vicar, spent four years in Rwanda as a missionary. When asked if angels still existed she felt called to investigate the question further. Her book holds wonderful accounts of visitations to people in all kinds of situations. Some were from the classical 'winged', brilliant with light angels and others, like your above account, appearing as everyday people.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.  George Orwell

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Eph 6:12

Shaker

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Re: Angels
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2015, 05:15:16 PM »
How do you tell the difference between an angel who appears as an ordinary person and, well, an ordinary person who's not an angel, then?
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SweetPea

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Re: Angels
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2015, 05:24:14 PM »
How do you tell the difference between an angel who appears as an ordinary person and, well, an ordinary person who's not an angel, then?

It seems to be the fact that one minute the person is 'there' and the next they are not. If angels are energy, they appear to be able to manifest as matter and then revert back to energy. 
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.  George Orwell

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Eph 6:12

Rhiannon

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Re: Angels
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2015, 05:26:14 PM »
How do you tell the difference between an angel who appears as an ordinary person and, well, an ordinary person who's not an angel, then?

You hear strains of Robbie Williams.

(Sorry)

Gordon

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Re: Angels
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2015, 05:27:34 PM »
How do you tell the difference between an angel who appears as an ordinary person and, well, an ordinary person who's not an angel, then?

It seems to be the fact that one minute the person is 'there' and the next they are not. If angels are energy, they appear to be able to manifest as matter and then revert back to energy.

Its a theory I suppose - how would you plan to test it?

SweetPea

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Re: Angels
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2015, 05:35:56 PM »
How do you tell the difference between an angel who appears as an ordinary person and, well, an ordinary person who's not an angel, then?

It seems to be the fact that one minute the person is 'there' and the next they are not. If angels are energy, they appear to be able to manifest as matter and then revert back to energy.

Its a theory I suppose - how would you plan to test it?

Good question....
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.  George Orwell

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Eph 6:12

Rhiannon

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Re: Angels
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2015, 05:37:14 PM »
The sad thing is that it doesn't give very real people credit for something kind or heroic.

Shaker

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Re: Angels
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2015, 05:51:20 PM »
It seems to be the fact that one minute the person is 'there' and the next they are not.
Round our way that's known as walking away.
I work hard so that my cats can have a better life.

Spud

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Re: Angels
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2015, 05:52:02 PM »
I was being pulled out to sea by a current in the estuary at Rock in Cornwall. This chap in a motor boat came past, I managed to say, can you help us please, and he kept on going... definitely a very strange angel. We did manage to swim to where it was shallow enough to touch the bottom and got back safely.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Angels
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2015, 05:52:15 PM »
It seems to be the fact that one minute the person is 'there' and the next they are not.
Round our way that's known as walking away.

Ask Floo: she's the one to ask about apparitions!
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Angels
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2015, 05:52:30 PM »
The sad thing is that it doesn't give very real people credit for something kind or heroic.
Indeed. You see it a lot with medical people being denied gratitude and credit for their phenomenal expertise and hard work, all the thanks going to baby Jesus instead.
I work hard so that my cats can have a better life.