Author Topic: Ontological Argument.......Really?  (Read 12388 times)

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2015, 12:15:57 AM »
If she is wrong, where have you demonstrated her to be so?
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 12:24:35 AM »
If she is wrong, where have you demonstrated her to be so?

I have no intention of listing the silly and uninformed comments she makes about so many aspects of the Bible, which any person with a rudimentary knowledge of the Bible, can see.  You have none, so you are out of the discussion.  In any case, I think to expect you to discuss  the Bible when your theological level amounts to describing Jesus as a "zombie on a stick," is a non-starter.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 12:31:35 AM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2015, 12:31:47 AM »

I have no intention ...
Copping-out, then. Simple as.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2015, 12:36:58 AM »

I have no intention ...
Copping-out, then. Simple as.

No, you are copping out, because you cannot discuss theology at any level, other than that of name-calling, because of your lack of knowledge.  It's no wonder, then, that you have an affinity with Floo.   Pathetic!
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2015, 12:38:57 AM »
There is no "level" at which rational people can discuss theology except as - as someone whose name escapes me temporarily defined it - the study of nothing.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2015, 12:39:39 AM »
There is no "level" at which rational people can discuss theology except as - as someone whose name escapes me temporarily defined it - the study of nothing.

Now that is a cop-out!
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2015, 12:41:44 AM »
No, it isn't. It's a subject without an object.

It was, incidentally, that great man, Thomas Paine:

Quote
The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2015, 12:53:00 AM »
No, it isn't. It's a subject without an object.

It was, incidentally, that great man, Thomas Paine:

Quote
The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing.

You think he was a great man, but plenty would disagree:  "Thomas Paine had passed the legendary limit of life. One by one most of his old friends and acquaintances had deserted him. Maligned on every side, execrated, shunned and abhorred his virtues denounced as vices his services forgotten his character blackened, he preserved the poise and balance of his soul. He was a victim of the people, but his convictions remained unshaken. He was still a soldier in the army of freedom, and still tried to enlighten and civilize those who were impatiently waiting for his death. Even those who loved their enemies hated him, their friend the friend of the whole world with all their hearts. On the 8th of June, 1809, death came Death, almost his only friend. At his funeral no pomp, no pageantry, no civic procession, no military display. In a carriage, a woman and her son who had lived on the bounty of the dead on horseback, a Quaker, the humanity of whose heart dominated the creed of his head and, following on foot, two negroes filled with gratitude constituted the funeral cortege of Thomas Paine."

 Also, rather at variance with your quote, he also said, "I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life." 

« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 12:55:19 AM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2015, 12:58:08 AM »
You seem to think that that's a criticism of Paine. It isn't - it's a tribute to him, by another of the world's great critics of religion, Robert Ingersoll. Read it again. (Been Googling away I see, hypocrite).

I never said anything with regard to Paine's opinions on God (he was a deist) but on theology.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 01:00:46 AM by Shaker »
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2015, 01:03:09 AM »
You seem to think that that's a criticism of Paine. It isn't - it's a tribute to him. Read it again. (Been Googling away I see, hypocrite).

I never said anything with regard to Paine's opinions on God (he was a deist) but on theology.

All very well quoting another person's views on religion;  but it conveniently avoids you having to become engaged in theological discussion on your own account, because you haven't the expertise.  You simply rely on blanket denunciation, which is the greatest cop-out of all. 
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2015, 01:03:53 AM »
Expertise in theology? Oh, very good. Tell us another one  :D

And I never indulge in blanket denunciation. Blankets, unlike theology, serve a purpose and are actually useful ;)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 01:06:33 AM by Shaker »
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2015, 01:08:55 AM »
Expertise in theology? Oh, very good. Tell us another one  :D

I was referring to your lack of expertise; I don't know what you thought.  I suppose it's getting late for you. Dropping off, are you?  Try and follow, or go to beddy byes.     :)

"Blankets, unlike theology, serve a purpose and are actually useful."  That inanity nicely demonstrates what I said:  your total lack of expertise, and inability to make a positive comment, only the repetitive denunciation.   
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 01:13:36 AM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2015, 01:11:37 AM »
And I was referring to the joke you made, the one about there being such a thing as expertise in theology.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2015, 01:15:35 AM »
And I was referring to the joke you made, the one about there being such a thing as expertise in theology.

What a lame, petty, comment  -  nothing new there, then.
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2015, 01:16:01 AM »
And correct  :D
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2015, 01:18:50 AM »
And correct  :D

Lame, petty, and incorrect, as always.   :)
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2015, 01:21:55 AM »
Then demonstrate me to be so. You'll have to do this by providing an objective yardstick of this so-called "expertise" in theology by which a scale of worst - bad - good - better - best can be ascertained as it can with, say, plumbing or science.

Best of luck with that ;)
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2015, 01:29:48 AM »
Then demonstrate me to be so. You'll have to do this by providing an objective yardstick of this so-called "expertise" in theology by which a scale of worst - bad - good - better - best can be ascertained as it can with, say, plumbing or science.

Best of luck with that ;)

Don't try and cloud the issue.  You are simply unable to argue theological topics when they arise, because you lack any basic knowledge.  Pick out any theological topic from this forum, and make your "informed" contribution, and prove you have some idea.  Good luck with that  -  and don't try and google your way out of it.    :)
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2015, 01:33:33 AM »
Don't try and cloud the issue.  You are simply unable to argue theological topics when they arise, because you lack any basic knowledge.  Pick out any theological topic from this forum, and make your "informed" contribution, and prove you have some idea.  Good luck with that  -  and don't try and google your way out of it.    :)
Not clouding the issue in the least - this is the crux of theology's uselessness. For there to be expertise in any area there has to be an objective scale by which this can be assessed. There are bad toilet cleaners and good toilet cleaners, there are bad electricians and good electricians, there are bad scientists and good scientists because we know how to tell one from the other - based on objective, observable, testable results. There's a way of knowing the difference.

Theology? Nope ;)
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2015, 01:38:12 AM »
Don't try and cloud the issue.  You are simply unable to argue theological topics when they arise, because you lack any basic knowledge.  Pick out any theological topic from this forum, and make your "informed" contribution, and prove you have some idea.  Good luck with that  -  and don't try and google your way out of it.    :)
Not clouding the issue in the least - this is the crux of theology's uselessness. For there to be expertise in any area there has to be an objective scale by which this can be assessed. There are bad toilet cleaners and good toilet cleaners, there are bad electricians and good electricians, there are bad scientists and good scientists because we know how to tell one from the other - based on objective, observable, testable results.

Theology? Nope ;)

I understand.  By adopting that attitude, you can avoid getting involved in discussion, thus covering your ignorance.  Good try:  well, not a good try actually,  just the same old cop-out.

 And on the subject of out, I'm out of here.  Good night.
BA.

Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2015, 01:38:45 AM »
Not unexpected  :)
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Private Frazer

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2015, 07:43:18 AM »
Don't try and cloud the issue.  You are simply unable to argue theological topics when they arise, because you lack any basic knowledge.  Pick out any theological topic from this forum, and make your "informed" contribution, and prove you have some idea.  Good luck with that  -  and don't try and google your way out of it.    :)
Not clouding the issue in the least - this is the crux of theology's uselessness. For there to be expertise in any area there has to be an objective scale by which this can be assessed. There are bad toilet cleaners and good toilet cleaners, there are bad electricians and good electricians, there are bad scientists and good scientists because we know how to tell one from the other - based on objective, observable, testable results. There's a way of knowing the difference.

Theology? Nope ;)
Poor Shaker revealing his ignorance of what theology is and promoting the big fat lie that everything that isn't science is failed science.

Theology is also based on agreed experience and pastoral experience.

Your scientism is just based on circular argument.

A better example of failed science is the decades of dashing young blades working on string theory and not coming out with very much. One of these young blades is a board pin up boy who now wants to squeeze science into string theory by removing falsifiability from science.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 07:53:00 AM by On stage before it wore off. »

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2015, 07:57:39 AM »
Perhaps you can tell us how you get a level of "expertise" in theology, then, Vlad. Seeing as BA has blobbed it and all ;)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 08:13:44 AM by Shaker »
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Private Frazer

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2015, 08:06:05 AM »
Then demonstrate me to be so. You'll have to do this by providing an objective yardstick of this so-called "expertise" in theology by which a scale of worst - bad - good - better - best can be ascertained as it can with, say, plumbing or science.

Best of luck with that ;)
What about the army of string theorists who haven't come up with very much?

Shaker

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Re: Ontological Argument.......Really?
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2015, 08:11:01 AM »
What about you sticking to the question you've been asked for a change?
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