Author Topic: Sacredness  (Read 3564 times)

Rhiannon

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Sacredness
« on: November 11, 2015, 01:21:57 PM »
Is it possible to hold something or somewhere as sacred if you don't attach any religious meaning to it?

Floo

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 01:26:55 PM »
I could be wrong but I thought the idea of sacred and religion were interlinked?
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Shaker

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2015, 01:27:23 PM »
Yes, as a linguistic extension of the word, sure. I don't see it as in any way different to saying that somebody supports a football team 'religiously.'

People will always have things that they regard as being of supreme worth and value; the language that they use to refer to such things will evolve over time, that's all.
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Shaker

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2015, 01:29:56 PM »
I could be wrong but I thought the idea of sacred and religion were interlinked?
Historically, in terms of the past, yes. But equally, in everyday speech we use the word to mean something merely very important: "You can contact Brian up to midday on Fridays but don't ring him on his Friday afternoons off - they're sacred," that sort of thing.
I work hard so that my cats can have a better life.

Rhiannon

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 01:33:56 PM »
I think it very much to do with the worth we attach to things. As we detach from conventional religion we will still have things that we hold as sacred - maybe family, relationships, places. To lose that doesn't seem wise. So maybe the meaning of the word will just change to mean valuing things of worth?

Shaker

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 01:36:07 PM »
Absolutely agree - and things of ultimate, non-negotiable worth at that, which people will always have.
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SusanDoris

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2015, 01:39:43 PM »
Words such as 'sacred' and 'holy'  - and come to think of it the latter is being used less and less I think - particularly the former are likely to be around for a long time to come, but I am optimistic that their link to religious beliefs will almost disappear in the not too distant future.
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Outrider

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 01:41:01 PM »
Is it possible to hold something or somewhere as sacred if you don't attach any religious meaning to it?

I think you can, in that you don't have to conform to a particular religion - an organised set of tenets and creeds about a particular belief or belief-system - just because you believe.

You could, for instance, think that there was some sort of deity, not claim to know anything about them very much, not conform to a particular prayer format or congregation but think that certain symbols, places or acts were 'holy'.

Sacred is related to the idea of 'gods', I suppose, but religion isn't necessary for faith.

O.
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Shaker

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2015, 01:42:05 PM »
It seems to me that 'holy' retains a link to religion specifically which 'sacred' is well on the way to losing. I don't hear anybody using the word 'holy' outside of a religious context, whereas people use 'sacred' in a secular context all the time.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2015, 01:42:51 PM »
It seems to me that 'holy' retains a link to religion specifically which 'sacred' is well on the way to losing. I don't hear anybody using the word 'holy' outside of a religious context, whereas people use 'sacred' in a secular context all the time.

Holy cow, I think you're right.   :)
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It is my commandment that you love one another."

SusanDoris

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2015, 01:45:53 PM »
It seems to me that 'holy' retains a link to religion specifically which 'sacred' is well on the way to losing. I don't hear anybody using the word 'holy' outside of a religious context, whereas people use 'sacred' in a secular context all the time.
Agreed; just goes to show how non-belief is becoming the replacement for, e.g. a CofE background culture, although far too slowly of course!
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Rhiannon

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2015, 01:54:59 PM »
I completely agree that 'holy' has connotations to it that you don't get with 'sacred'. I almost feel that 'sacred' could become a kind of secular 'holy'. I wonder if fostering an idea of sacredness around nature and each other is actually essential.

Shaker

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2015, 01:57:24 PM »
Essential if we're to stand any chance at all of getting ourselves of the mire we're digging ourselves ever deeper into by the day.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 07:11:35 PM by Shaker »
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Rhiannon

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2015, 01:59:40 PM »
Yes, that's my thinking too.  :-\

Floo

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2015, 02:03:59 PM »
I could be wrong but I thought the idea of sacred and religion were interlinked?
Historically, in terms of the past, yes. But equally, in everyday speech we use the word to mean something merely very important: "You can contact Brian up to midday on Fridays but don't ring him on his Friday afternoons off - they're sacred," that sort of thing.

I get your point.
“The wise recognise their failings and laugh at their idiosyncrasies” RJG

OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2015, 04:32:34 PM »
Hey BA,
Let's check on Sriram's thoughts about the "Holy Cow" thingy? There's a lot of holy cows in India and lots of holy cow poo.

Holy cow poo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g85c70Qun2U

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2015, 09:19:03 PM »
Hey BA,
Let's check on Sriram's thoughts about the "Holy Cow" thingy? There's a lot of holy cows in India and lots of holy cow poo.

Holy cow poo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g85c70Qun2U

That is an amazing video  -  not sure if it is a wind-up or not.  If not, then I've certainly learned something today!  I reckon the atheists here might be interested;  not that they are into making pies from it, but they sure as heck talk it!    ;)
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2015, 09:53:48 PM »
Holy cow poop can tell time as well.
Here's stompin Tom singing about the cowsie dungsie clock

http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/audio/nfld/04/margo.htm

« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 10:05:34 PM by MAGIC COOKIE »

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2015, 09:57:01 PM »
Holy cow poop can tell time as well.
Her's stompin Tom singing about the cowsie dungsie clock

http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/audio/nfld/04/margo.htm

 :D  Shaky might like that one: though I reckon he'll look for the Vaughan Williams version. 
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Rhiannon

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2015, 10:08:49 PM »
Glad to see that the concept of the sacred is something you take seriously, BA.

Oh no, wait a minute, I've got that wrong.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2015, 10:14:37 PM »
Glad to see that the concept of the sacred is something you take seriously, BA.

Oh no, wait a minute, I've got that wrong.

It's just a word.  You ought to spend a little more time on your sense of humour  -  well, a lot of time, since you don't actually have one!
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Samuel

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2015, 01:07:56 PM »
more personal abuse BA? ... well done
A lot of people don't believe that the loch ness monster exists. Now, I don't know anything about zooology, biology, geology, herpetology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, marine biology, cryptozoology, palaeontology or archaeology... but I think... what if a dinosaur got into the lake?

Samuel

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2015, 01:21:12 PM »
to me the persistence of these sorts of words - sacred, spiritual, soul etc - actually indicates that they express something much broader and deeper than the ideas of the religious structures within which they have traditionally been promoted. I think they articulate something of the human experience that it is difficult to convey otherwise. That is why in an arguable post-religious secular society they still have relevance. There doesn't even need to be a hint of the supernatural for these terms to convey meaning.

As it happens I have been working on a bit of heritage interpretation for a nearby beach owned by the national trust. Identifying the aspects of the site that make it important to people is key to making any historical or natural stories about the place relevant. This particular site is characterised not by one specific attribute, but because people go there to spend quality time. That is a tough one to articulate in a useful way. Here is what came up with this as the theme (name of site left out) to underpin how the content and stories are presented.

"------- is sanctified by the countless hours people have spent there, in the company of nature and of loved ones"

This is entirely in the absence of any religious component whatsoever, but as I reflected on how to articulate the ineffable significance we had identified it was absolutely the best option... or at least the best I could do.

A lot of people don't believe that the loch ness monster exists. Now, I don't know anything about zooology, biology, geology, herpetology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, marine biology, cryptozoology, palaeontology or archaeology... but I think... what if a dinosaur got into the lake?

Shaker

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2015, 01:26:09 PM »
That's certainly how I would understand/interpret/use the concept of sacredness, personally.
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Samuel

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Re: Sacredness
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2015, 01:28:59 PM »
Yes, it seems to be widely accepted like that. But I feel the same way about terms like spiritual and soul, and its is to my personal frustration that religion and the supernatural apparently still 'own' them.
A lot of people don't believe that the loch ness monster exists. Now, I don't know anything about zooology, biology, geology, herpetology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, marine biology, cryptozoology, palaeontology or archaeology... but I think... what if a dinosaur got into the lake?