BBC Sports Personality 2015

[ProfessorDavey]

She has had time off (2 years iirc) initially for injury but more recently to look after her child.  The World title in the summer, that she won by a sizeable margin (in heptathlon terms) was her first full competition of any note since her return.  She therefore regained that particular crown, one she had previously won in 2009.

But this isn't some kind of 'overdoing adversity' award so I really don't think the fact that she had considerable time off is relevant at all.

She won the world championship and that's all that matters - it matter not whether she'd had a full season the previous year or not. Otherwise it comes over as a bit of a 'hard luck' award - she doesn't need that as her achievement wasn't second or third where 'excuses' might be necessary, but first.

[jeremyp]

Hamilton has become Britain's joint top most successful driver but a) just being the best Briton doesn't necessarily mean much, and b) how much of his success is down to Mercedes' engineering. He's outstanding, but I'm not sure that he'd beat some of the others in the same car - Alonso, Button, Ricciardo, possibly even Verstappen.

Alonso is the only driver who is better than Hamilton in that list. Alonso is the best racing driver still active although Hamilton has more outright speed.

For me though, the stand-out has been Froome.

I agree.

[Outrider]

Alonso is the only driver who is better than Hamilton in that list. Alonso is the best racing driver still active although Hamilton has more outright speed.

Rather depends on what you're looking for - when the car suits him, Hamilton's untouchable, but as soon as it isn't he doesn't adapt well. Alonso - and Button - can do that, and do it well. Alonso's faster than Button, but Button breaks his cars less and, it seems to me, gives better feedback to the team on what the car's doing on the track.

Hamilton's undeniably quick - as you say, on his day, probably the quickest - but it isn't always your day. It's racing, and if he manages to have enough of 'his days' in a season, he's going to win, but if you put Alonso or Button in this year's Ferrari I wonder if he'd have found the championship as easy as he did.

O.

[Hope]

But this isn't some kind of 'overdoing adversity' award so I really don't think the fact that she had considerable time off is relevant at all.

My point wasn't particularly her tme off (though that was possibly beneficial) but the fact that she came back as World No 1 without several full lead-up competitions.  Doesn't that suggest that she is a Sports Personality par excellence?

[Hope]

It is, but it's equivalent to that of the other top teams, and (unlike in Hamilton's case) they can't be said to be doing the work for him, they're creating the environment in which he can. I'm presuming that Jessica Ennis-Hill and Greg Rutherford have support teams of their own that are relevant to their needs: if they needed more, the funding and organisation is there to provide it.

O.

Your comment highlights exactly why I questioned your original comment about Chris Frooms "... but he's done so whilst maintaining his temper and decorum under some pretty horrendous treatment, whereas most of the others have been pretty well supported throughout their achievements."  The support element is pretty well irrelevant to any of the candidates' case.

[Outrider]

Your comment highlights exactly why I questioned your original comment about Chris Frooms "... but he's done so whilst maintaining his temper and decorum under some pretty horrendous treatment, whereas most of the others have been pretty well supported throughout their achievements."  The support element is pretty well irrelevant to any of the candidates' case.

I don't think so - the support team can prepare you for the sport, but what preparatory work do you do on how to handle being spat on by spectators or having urine thrown over you whilst you're competing?

Froome's support team train and condition him, mentally and physically, and that's no different in principle to Jessican Ennis-Hill or Greg Rutherford's support team training them mentally and physically for what they will be doing.

Whilst Froome will have his bicycle maintained I suspect that the athletes aren't, for instance, making their own trainers or shorts. Those are the pieces of equipment that allow them to compete, but they do the work.

Hamilton, by contrast, whilst supremely skillful, isn't competing on a level playing field because of the equipment supplied to him which actually does the work. He has to get the performance out of it, but other competitors don't have that capacity to hand to wring performance from.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

My point wasn't particularly her tme off (though that was possibly beneficial) but the fact that she came back as World No 1 without several full lead-up competitions.  Doesn't that suggest that she is a Sports Personality par excellence?

Well unless it is a pretty terrible year then I'd hope that all the shortlist (or at least those with a creditable chance of winning) should be world number one, or have won something pretty remarkable (e.g. Murray and the Davis cup), so that isn't really a discriminator.

And even in athletics, surely she can't be above Mo Farah, who also won in Beijing - but in two events - and for him a 'double, double' of worlds. And he has won double the number of global titles (Olympics and Worlds) compared to any other British athlete - including Ennis.

So, no, Ennis shouldn't win - if it goes to an athlete it should be Farah - but actually I think Froome's achievements are better than either, considering the astonishing difficulty of winning the tour de france and therefore to win it twice is quite remarkable.

[Nearly Sane]

It's a pity it isn't just about charm as then certainly Fury would be a shoo-in.

http://www.thenational.scot/sport/tyson-fury-turns-his-fire-on-andy-murray.10882

[Gonnagle]

Dear Susan,

I am glad you are listening to radio 4, if you were listening to radio 2 at the moment, it might be detrimental to your health, Tyson Fury a wonderful spokesman for Christianity.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

One person who will not be winning BBC Sports Personality 2015, what a prick.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Tyson Fury a wonderful spokesman for Christianity.

This Tyson Fury or another one?

"I believe a woman's best place is in the kitchen and on her back, that's my personal belief. Making me a good cup of tea, that's what I believe."

"There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home. One of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other is paedophilia. Who would have thought in the 50s and 60s that those first two would be legalised?"

"The devil is very strong at the minute. Very strong. And I believe the end is near. The bible tells me the end is near. The world tells me the end is near. Just a little short few years, I reckon, away from being finished."

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Way beyond sarcasm, which only proves that you can be world champion and still be a prick, correction, Christian prick.

Gonnagle.

[SusanDoris]

Yes, a thoroughly nasty piece of work by the sound of it.

[Rhiannon]

And a contender for sports personality of the year.

[BashfulAnthony]

And a contender for sports personality of the year.

Yes.  Because he is a powerful sports achiever.  And in case you people hadn't noticed, the award is about sport, not his personal views, however unacceptable they may be.

[jakswan]

Yes.  Because he is a powerful sports achiever.  And in case you people hadn't noticed, the award is about sport, not his personal views, however unacceptable they may be.

Yes but this is sport personality of the year and his personality is fucking shit.

[BashfulAnthony]

Yes but this is sport personality of the year and his personality is fucking shit.

Sports personality, not his personality in any other respect.   Yours is delightful, though, as your language exemplifies  -  all 80,000 odd adjectives to choose from in English, and all you can come up with is crude expletives.  So perhaps you're not best qualified to judge personality!

[jeremyp]

Rather depends on what you're looking for - when the car suits him, Hamilton's untouchable, but as soon as it isn't he doesn't adapt well.

I disagree with that. Hamilton is pretty good at getting the best out of a crap car. He won his first World Championship in what was only the second best car on the grid.

Alonso - and Button - can do that, and do it well.

They've had a lot of practice at that this year.

Alonso's faster than Button, but Button breaks his cars less and, it seems to me, gives better feedback to the team on what the car's doing on the track.

I don't think we hear the important stuff. They only broadcast the whiney bits.

Hamilton's undeniably quick - as you say, on his day, probably the quickest - but it isn't always your day. It's racing, and if he manages to have enough of 'his days' in a season, he's going to win, but if you put Alonso or Button in this year's Ferrari I wonder if he'd have found the championship as easy as he did.

I think Alonso would have challenged for the title. Both he and Button are better than Vettel IMO, but I think perversely, it would have helped Hamilton in a way because he would still have been winning races but Rosberg might have been knocked down to third a few times.

[Outrider]

Yes.  Because he is a powerful sports achiever.  And in case you people hadn't noticed, the award is about sport, not his personal views, however unacceptable they may be.

Then why isn't it called 'Sportsperson of the Year'?

Fury says that he doesn't care if he wins, and I believe him. I don't think there are enough votes in the world for him to feel that anyone else is quite as impressed with him as he obviously is. I genuinely hope he comes rock-bottom last, but unfortunately I suspect he won't.

I'll just have to be satisfied that he's not going to win.

O.

[BashfulAnthony]

Then why isn't it called 'Sportsperson of the Year'?

Fury says that he doesn't care if he wins, and I believe him. I don't think there are enough votes in the world for him to feel that anyone else is quite as impressed with him as he obviously is. I genuinely hope he comes rock-bottom last, but unfortunately I suspect he won't.

I'll just have to be satisfied that he's not going to win.

O.

You are just playing with semantics.  I think most will view the occasion as a tribute to sporting excellence, and nothing more.

If we are to judge a winner by what he says or does outside the sporting arena, than how do you justify voting for, say Hamilton, a tax exile, who "cheats" on his own country?

[Outrider]

I disagree with that. Hamilton is pretty good at getting the best out of a crap car. He won his first World Championship in what was only the second best car on the grid.

Perhaps it's just that, when he's on a bad day he blames the set-up, but it does seem that he's sensitive to the set-up in a way that the other top drivers aren't.

They've had a lot of practice at that this year.

I know, and it's such a shame. It wouldn't be the sport that it is without the team competition, but I would like to see one or two races where they're all in the same chassis - makes Top Gear's F1 star in a reasonably priced car seem a little bit more significant

I don't think we hear the important stuff. They only broadcast the whiney bits.

I know, but I know a couple of people who work in some of the teams - not well, from university - and that's their commentary more than mine.

I think Alonso would have challenged for the title. Both he and Button are better than Vettel IMO, but I think perversely, it would have helped Hamilton in a way because he would still have been winning races but Rosberg might have been knocked down to third a few times.

Indeed. Rosberg's an excellent driver - they all are, at that level - but like Vettel he doesn't seem to be an excellent racer. I think Vettel's last season at Red Bull against Ricciardo showed how much of his 4 consecutive titles was down to him and how much to Adrian Newey and team orders...

O.

[Outrider]

You are just playing with semantics.  I think most will view the occasion as a tribute to sporting excellence, and nothing more.

I'm playing with semantics, yet it was you who decided the wanted to emphasise one word of the phrase rather than the entirety...?

If we are to judge a winner by what he says or does outside the sporting arena, than how do you justify voting for, say Hamilton, a tax exile, who "cheats" on his own country?

I'd say emigrating to a more favourable tax regime, whilst unfortunate, is infinitely preferable to being a colossal misogynist homophobic dick-head. If the worst you can say about Hamilton is that he's smart enough to employ good accountants then I'd say he's eligible for the award - although, as I said, I've cast my vote for Froome.

O.

[jakswan]

Sports personality, not his personality in any other respect.   Yours is delightful, though, as your language exemplifies  -  all 80,000 odd adjectives to choose from in English, and all you can come up with is crude expletives.  So perhaps you're not best qualified to judge personality!

Sometimes I feel expletives are apt. I don't care if you think I'm not a judge to judge a personality.

[Rhiannon]

Sports personality, not his personality in any other respect.   Yours is delightful, though, as your language exemplifies  -  all 80,000 odd adjectives to choose from in English, and all you can come up with is crude expletives.  So perhaps you're not best qualified to judge personality!

So Fury gets your vote regardless of the shit he comes out with because he's good at hitting people yet Jak's views count for nothing because he swears?

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11274.0

[Aruntraveller]

In previous SPOTY they have always, but ALWAYS, rambled on about what good ambassadors/role models the recipient of the award was.

I look forward to Clare Balding making the same declaration about the misogynist homophobe that is Tyson Fury.

Remember all you female posters - you should either be on your back or making a cuppa.

I am according to said gentleman a wanker for signing a petition against his nomination - which I'll readily admit to.

But I do wonder does a man who buys and wears the coats he does, have any right to make such a judgement