Author Topic: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline  (Read 1682 times)

JP

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Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« on: December 21, 2015, 01:47:29 PM »
So says the headline, an airline that (amongst other things) serves only halal food and denies you the freedom to bring your own food on board, ironically claiming that.....

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This is the latest Low Cost Carrier from Malaysia that puts the customers first.

Unless you are not a Muslim of course, then putting the customer first doesn't matter because you don't matter as a customer. How long before segregated seating appears.

http://tinyurl.com/zq96qzu

How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 02:02:55 PM »
So says the headline, an airline that (amongst other things) serves only halal food and denies you the freedom to bring your own food on board, ironically claiming that.....

Unless you are not a Muslim of course, then putting the customer first doesn't matter because you don't matter as a customer. How long before segregated seating appears.

http://tinyurl.com/zq96qzu

They probably have segregated seating already. Who cares? Bollox to them.

letstryagain

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 11:53:20 AM »
Hope that their approach to maintenance isn't inshallah!!

Brownie

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 04:39:24 PM »
Doesn't bother me.  I'm sure Malaysia has other airline companies so no-one has to use that one.

At least Muslims can be sure that they get Halal food on that flight, it is important to many of them.  Seems odd to us but there's room for all surely.

Malaysia is cosmopolitan and, although the official state religion is Islam, rather like we are CofE, from what I know from people who have been there and who come from there, it is a tolerant society with freedom of religion and multi-ethnicity.

I doubt there would be an airline set aside for a particular religion or people in this country (though individual groups do hire aircraft, eg Chassidic Jews), but what is legal or 'the done thing' in other countries is not our concern.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Bubbles

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 07:20:01 PM »
Egyptian airlines only do halal food too.

Or they did when I flew with them.

http://www.inflightfeed.com/egypt-air/

They do kosher as well but I think you have to order it special, everyone else gets halal.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 07:22:50 PM by Rose »

john

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 07:26:04 PM »
Brownie

So Malaysia is a tolerant society......suggest you take more interest in World news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/6963436/Religious-violence-in-Malaysia-escalates-as-more-churches-attacked.html
"Try again. Fail again. Fail Better". Samuel Beckett

Gabriella

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2015, 01:01:30 PM »
The intolerance of identity politics features quite heavily during periods of financial, political or cultural turbulence in all societies, including the UK.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/02/identity-politics-has-created-an-army-of-vicious-narcissists/

Since the majority of Malaysian society are not involved in petrol-bombing churches, I would view your link as examples of isolated criminal behaviour.

I would be more concerned about issues such as financial and political corruption and censorship in society.

It's pretty easy to find similar stories of criminal behaviour of a minority of people in all societies e.g migrants arriving in Finland being petrol-bombed by locals.

Or there was a story about a disabled man being terrorised by a lynch mob in Bristol, and eventually being beaten to death and set on fire by 2 neighbours, while the police ignored his repeated pleas for assistance, and on one occasion arrested him instead of the people threatening him.

Apparently twenty police officers and staff, including inspectors and sergeants, are to face disciplinary proceedings, including for race discrimination.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/bijan-ebrahimi-murder-man-killed-by-lynch-mob-pleaded-with-police-for-help-a6782266.html

Jack Knave

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2015, 01:34:35 PM »
Allah gives you wings.

Your special today is 72 virgins in paradise as we fly into a US tower block....WEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.........

Gabriella

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2015, 03:14:56 PM »
Hilarious. ::)

Wonder what rewards US pilots are looking forward to when they drop bombs on people in other countries.

Some ill-defined concept of serving their country with honour perhaps. Or feeling they are doing their patriotic duty, perhaps serving a higher purpose, personal glory,  medals? 

Or is it just that they consider the people being killed as different therefore it is more acceptable to follow orders and kill them to help defend their own, or in pursuit of a political goal?

Jack Knave

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2015, 03:36:05 PM »
Hilarious. ::)

Wonder what rewards US pilots are looking forward to when they drop bombs on people in other countries.

Some ill-defined concept of serving their country with honour perhaps. Or feeling they are doing their patriotic duty, perhaps serving a higher purpose, personal glory,  medals? 

Or is it just that they consider the people being killed as different therefore it is more acceptable to follow orders and kill them to help defend their own, or in pursuit of a political goal?
Paying off their debts I think.

JP

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2015, 03:36:24 PM »

I would be more concerned about issues such as financial and political corruption and censorship in society.


If you have a look around some of the political / religious articles available over t'internet people are concerned about such things, along with a growing more conservative strain of Islam.
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Gabriella

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 03:49:01 PM »
Yes, conservatism can be a problem when combined with political, military and economic power.

trippymonkey

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 03:49:38 PM »
Hilarious. ::)

Wonder what rewards US pilots are looking forward to when they drop bombs on people in other countries.

Some ill-defined concept of serving their country with honour perhaps. Or feeling they are doing their patriotic duty, perhaps serving a higher purpose, personal glory,  medals? 

Or is it just that they consider the people being killed as different therefore it is more acceptable to follow orders and kill them to help defend their own, or in pursuit of a political goal?

MMMM?!??!
Sounds VERY familiar, this !?!?!?!?

JP

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 07:19:56 PM »
Yes, conservatism can be a problem when combined with political, military and economic power.

Or with the right pressure from the religious conservatives, without any of the above.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 07:26:32 PM by JP »
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Jack Knave

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2015, 01:31:01 PM »
Yes, conservatism can be a problem when combined with political, military and economic power.
I think that is true of almost anything. Greed and power, and some nutty political ideology will be a recipe for any madness.

Gabriella

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2015, 12:11:50 PM »
True - but some people get more agitated when some Muslims do bad stuff compared to when other people do it - something about Muslim identities seems to play into their prejudices.

Possibly thanks to the way certain sections of the British and US media increase sales by their disproportionate focus on/  reporting of negative stories involving Muslims and don't give as much publicity to other stories that would provide balance.

And for some people there is an element of when "our" people (people who seem similar to us) do something bad, we don't make negative generalisations the way we do when "other" people (those we can't identify with or relate to) do something bad.

Jack Knave

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2015, 01:52:20 PM »
True - but some people get more agitated when some Muslims do bad stuff compared to when other people do it - something about Muslim identities seems to play into their prejudices.

Possibly thanks to the way certain sections of the British and US media increase sales by their disproportionate focus on/  reporting of negative stories involving Muslims and don't give as much publicity to other stories that would provide balance.

And for some people there is an element of when "our" people (people who seem similar to us) do something bad, we don't make negative generalisations the way we do when "other" people (those we can't identify with or relate to) do something bad.
Most people, on both sides, have short attention spans in the sense that they fail to see the bigger, long term picture (unless pain and grief imposes it upon them). All this has a history and Western leaders have been myopic, hubristic, self serving twats who have totally misjudged nearly every move they have made. One of those moves was of multiculturalism. The Muslim outlook does not fit at all well into our western life styles, politics and democracy and they should not have been allowed in in such numbers and with abandonment. Not to mention the Western foreign policy for some centuries now but especially over the handful of recent decades. 

So I would say that it is this perception of this incongruent aspect that is so close to home for many 'Joe Bloggs' westerners that allows them to tune in into this easy rhetoric being splashed about by the media and which lacks some historical context.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 01:59:51 PM by Jack Knave »

JP

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2015, 11:51:14 AM »
Dress codes and no accommodation for non Muslim passengers on an airline. It seems to be a growing trend in a country that is a Muslim majority nation that (once) used to live and let live.

There are many articles on the web about the growing conservatism in the country but here are a few quotes from  the Huff Post.

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Women in Malaysia, long seen as a moderate Islamic nation, have been denied entry to government buildings on the grounds their skirts were too revealing, fanning fears of growing conservatism in a country with large non-Muslim minorities.

The dress code, which bars revealing clothes for women in government buildings, had not been strictly followed, so the tougher enforcement over garments seen as showing too much leg came as a shock to many Malaysians.

“Too much leg” btw =  knee length shorts.

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"They're not paid to be fashion police," said rights activist Marina Mahathir, the daughter of former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamed.
"Because we don't hear someone at the top saying, 'This is wrong,' that's taken as condoning these actions and a license for them to do that."

Mahathir himself had objected to similar measures imposed by officials during his 22-year tenure, she added. The most recent incidents showed that Malaysia was regressing and "acting like Saudi Arabia", the former prime minister has said.

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Religious scholars saw the stricter enforcement of the dress code as a mark of respect to Muslims

How long before the airline does the same I wonder, a dress code for non-Muslims as the Muslims need to be respected….., and screw the undeserving others.

http://tinyurl.com/gokhns5
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Jack Knave

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2015, 07:08:39 PM »
This is something that is always a risk with things like this, that the  moderate parties, due to the polarization of the situation and direction of the rhetoric, start to move to the extreme positions of those who are seen to be waving their kind of flag. It is not that they necessarily agree with them but that the polarization of the either/or choices means siding with those that are seen to be the lesser bad option.

letstryagain

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2016, 09:09:14 AM »
True - but some people get more agitated when some Muslims do bad stuff compared to when other people do it - something about Muslim identities seems to play into their prejudices.

Possibly thanks to the way certain sections of the British and US media increase sales by their disproportionate focus on/  reporting of negative stories involving Muslims and don't give as much publicity to other stories that would provide balance.

And for some people there is an element of when "our" people (people who seem similar to us) do something bad, we don't make negative generalisations the way we do when "other" people (those we can't identify with or relate to) do something bad.

Happy New Year. True, but I think some parts of the Muslim community are taking advantage of our unwillingness to confront issues, e.g. however offensive, we in the UK mock religions however because of Muslim sensitivities and the threat of violence no one dare say anything negative about Mohammad, consequently no through evaluation of his life occurs.
 The allowance of some Shariah courts that discriminate against women in contravention of UK law occurs without serious investigation, and  let us not forget Rochdale etc. I don't blame "Muslims" some sections are just taking advantage of an army of Liberals? Do gooders? whatever you wish to call them, who don't want to believe that in some areas of modern life the west has moved on and that Islam (and perhaps other religions) should adjust

Jack Knave

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2016, 08:05:16 PM »
Happy New Year. True, but I think some parts of the Muslim community are taking advantage of our unwillingness to confront issues, e.g. however offensive, we in the UK mock religions however because of Muslim sensitivities and the threat of violence no one dare say anything negative about Mohammad, consequently no through evaluation of his life occurs.
 The allowance of some Shariah courts that discriminate against women in contravention of UK law occurs without serious investigation, and  let us not forget Rochdale etc. I don't blame "Muslims" some sections are just taking advantage of an army of Liberals? Do gooders? whatever you wish to call them, who don't want to believe that in some areas of modern life the west has moved on and that Islam (and perhaps other religions) should adjust
The problem with Rochdale (I thought it was Rotherham?) is that people have been brainwashed with all this politically correct crap such that even the police won't act when crimes are done by these ethnic groups.

Jack Knave

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2016, 08:16:15 PM »
This is something that is always a risk with things like this, that the  moderate parties, due to the polarization of the situation and direction of the rhetoric, start to move to the extreme positions of those who are seen to be waving their kind of flag. It is not that they necessarily agree with them but that the polarization of the either/or choices means siding with those that are seen to be the lesser bad option.
Talking about polarization, today the Saudis and Iran are at each others diplomatic throats. Not only will this upset the political plan for Syria, pleasing ISIS; which Cameron posited for bombing the place, but will also fire up the 'local' and regional animosities even if the international/national affair won't amount to a great deal of fireworks and troubles on the 'surface' of things.

Gabriella

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2016, 11:07:02 AM »
Or with the right pressure from the religious conservatives, without any of the above.
I think pressure groups in a democracy do have a lot of political power because of their ability to influence voters and therefore influence those who form public policy who are afraid of losing their political positions.

I agree that the level of pressure exerted on individuals is also a problem. The pressure to do something that is harmful to them or their family or the wider community and the general public, or the pressure to refrain from doing something. That pressure can cause harm regardless of whether the source is religious, political or cultural conservatism. From what I have observed, my opinion is that restricting the right to criticise moral values and moral pressure exerted on individuals seems to lead to more harm than the emotional harm felt by people when their personal values and morals are criticised. For example, on this forum, all of us have our personal values, morals and motives criticised and challenged and seem to be able to cope without any major problem. 


 

Gabriella

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Re: Malaysia launches its first Islamic airline
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2016, 12:09:22 PM »
Happy New Year. True, but I think some parts of the Muslim community are taking advantage of our unwillingness to confront issues, e.g. however offensive, we in the UK mock religions however because of Muslim sensitivities and the threat of violence no one dare say anything negative about Mohammad, consequently no through evaluation of his life occurs.
 The allowance of some Shariah courts that discriminate against women in contravention of UK law occurs without serious investigation, and  let us not forget Rochdale etc. I don't blame "Muslims" some sections are just taking advantage of an army of Liberals? Do gooders? whatever you wish to call them, who don't want to believe that in some areas of modern life the west has moved on and that Islam (and perhaps other religions) should adjust
Happy New Year to you too. I think you are right that some Muslims are taking advantage. Not sure realistically how that or any other type of exploitation will be stopped. It's like tax avoidance or benefit fraud - if tax laws or welfare provisions are open to exploitation there will always be some people who will try to manipulate the system to their advantage.

I also think regardless of how Prophet Mohamed's life is evaluated - and there are so many conflicting stories that it would be difficult to know what is true - in any society it would eventually come down to some people justifying certain behaviours attributed to him because of a mixture of supposed context, their own personal values and their personal agendas, while other people would find those behaviours reprehensible in that context, again because of their own personal values and agendas. 

I am not sure what you mean by the West has moved on - if you mean that the West is more open to allowing criticism of its various different value systems - yes on the whole you would no longer get hauled up before a Committee and black-listed or found guilty of a crime such as sedition or treason let alone be tortured for expressing a critical opinion that someone found offensive though you might get a visit from the police or trolled by Twitter users and the media.

If you mean by "moved on" that the failings of the West are easier to live with than the failings in other parts of the world, my personal and admittedly very limited experience is yes I agree. I would rather spend my time trying to protect my kids from the dangers in Britain of issues such as crime, alcohol, drugs, sexual exploitation packaged up as sexual freedom, reliance on materialism or the superficial for happiness compared to trying to protect them from being bombed by their government or foreign powers, arbitrary arrest, brutal torture, mass rape, starvation in besieged towns, restriction of movement, corruption, not to mention the failing of basic social infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, security, law and order. And as you pointed out it is not just countries where Muslims are in the majority that experience these issues - they are also the experiences of people in many countries where Muslims are in the minority e.g. Sri Lanka.

That doesn't mean I would not criticise any perceived failings by societies in the West or anywhere else, as I think all value systems and behaviours should be open to critique and obviously I would expect there to be a broad spectrum of views and for there to be disagreement on the assessments of the relative impact of different values and behaviours.

Different people have different assessments of the level of emotional harm inflicted by different personal value systems. Having been an atheist, my experience is that not being religious doesn't afford protection from emotional pain. Being religious or spiritual just gives you some alternative tools to deal with pain as well as availing yourself of the non-religious tools.

It's up to society, made up of individuals to reach some agreement about whether the religious tools cause a level of harm that needs to be regulated or banned. That it is difficult to reach agreement is probably down to the complexity of the competing values that individuals within British society hold as important, such as tolerance and transparency and due process. It seems people in authority in Britain are willing to tolerate a lot in order to avoid being accused by members of their own society of intolerance. It's up to the people tying themselves in knots about this to untie themselves and accept some level of intolerance within themselves or accept that due process takes a long time so remedies to problems will be slow.