Author Topic: Homeopathy!  (Read 19219 times)

Sriram

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Homeopathy!
« on: January 12, 2016, 06:38:21 AM »
Hi everyone,

Well..well...here is something interesting about Homeopathy.....finally!  :D

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/luc-montagnier-homeopathy-taken-seriously_b_814619.html?ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in

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Dr. Luc Montagnier, the French virologist who won the Nobel Prize in 2008 for discovering the AIDS virus, has surprised the scientific community with his strong support for homeopathic medicine.

In a remarkable interview published in Science magazine of December 24, 2010, (1) Professor Luc Montagnier, has expressed support for the often maligned and misunderstood medical specialty of homeopathic medicine. Although homeopathy has persisted for 200+ years throughout the world and has been the leading alternative treatment method used by physicians in Europe, (2) most conventional physicians and scientists have expressed skepticism about its efficacy due to the extremely small doses of medicines used.

Montagnier, who is also founder and president of the World Foundation for AIDS Research and Prevention, asserted, "I can't say that homeopathy is right in everything. What I can say now is that the high dilutions (used in homeopathy) are right. High dilutions of something are not nothing. They are water structures which mimic the original molecules."

Here, Montagnier is making reference to his experimental research that confirms one of the controversial features of homeopathic medicine that uses doses of substances that undergo sequential dilution with vigorous shaking in-between each dilution. Although it is common for modern-day scientists to assume that none of the original molecules remain in solution, Montagnier's research (and other of many of his colleagues) has verified that electromagnetic signals of the original medicine remains in the water and has dramatic biological effects.

It is remarkable enough that many skeptics of homeopathy actually say that there is "no research" that has shows that homeopathic medicines work. Such statements are clearly false, and yet, such assertions are common on the Internet and even in some peer-review articles.

Misstatements and misinformation on homeopathy are predictable because this system of medicine provides a viable and significant threat to economic interests in medicine, let alone to the very philosophy and worldview of biomedicine.

In the light of this research, it can now be asserted that anyone who says or suggests that there is "nothing" in homeopathic medicines is either simply uninformed or is not being honest.

In addition to Benveniste and Montagnier is the weighty opinion of Brian Josephson, Ph.D., who, like Montagnier, is a Nobel Prize-winning scientist.

Josephson went on to describe how many scientists today suffer from "pathological disbelief;" that is, they maintain an unscientific attitude that is embodied by the statement "even if it were true I wouldn't believe it."

In closing, it should be noted that skepticism of any subject is important to the evolution of science and medicine. However, as noted above by Nobelist Brian Josephson, many scientists have a "pathological disbelief" in certain subjects that ultimately create an unhealthy and unscientific attitude blocks real truth and real science.

*************

Cheers.

Sriram
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 06:55:36 AM by Sriram »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 06:46:51 AM »
So 'finally' means an article that is 5 years old by a 'homeopath' about non peer reviewed, non replicable experiments

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier


When you read articles such as the one cited which make a lot of Nobel prize winner as if it is a magic wand, just say Linus Pauling 3 times.


Rhiannon

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 07:27:45 AM »
Surely you know that if you put a magic exclamation mark at the end of a word it gives it special powers, NS?

floo

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2016, 08:30:27 AM »
My middle daughter is into homeopathy and reckon it works for her.

Red Giant

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2016, 08:41:32 AM »
It would work for me if I believed in it.

But I prefer to believe in the curative powers of alcohol, and that works as well.

Bubbles

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2016, 08:48:43 AM »
It would work for me if I believed in it.

But I prefer to believe in the curative powers of alcohol, and that works as well.

Yes my old mum reckons her shot of brandy in ginger before bed works a treat too ;

Aruntraveller

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2016, 09:07:52 AM »
You will have to excuse me but it is rubbish. Sheer unmitigated nonsense.

It is infinitely more beneficial for you to drink a glass of water.

This puts me in mind of a byline on here which ran if I remember correctly "I see gullible people - everywhere"
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Bubbles

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2016, 09:09:55 AM »
She feels it does, it probably helps her sleep.


Aruntraveller

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2016, 09:15:31 AM »
She feels it does, it probably helps her sleep.

Sorry Rose

I was talking about homeopathy  - not Brandy and ginger which I am sure has a beneficial effect - no matter what the department of health are trying to tell us!
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Outrider

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2016, 09:36:15 AM »
Although homeopathy has persisted for 200+ years throughout the world and has been the leading alternative treatment method used by physicians in Europe, (2) most conventional physicians and scientists have expressed skepticism about its efficacy due to the extremely small doses of medicines used.

No, most scientists and physicians express skepticism because a) it's the default position for science and b) because in repeated testing homeopathy has consistently proven to be no more effective than a placebo.

Physicians are skeptical because it's been repeatedly shown not to work, not purely because the mechanism makes no sense and defies the basic precepts of physics and chemistry, but because it demonstrably doesn't work.

Quote
It is remarkable enough that many skeptics of homeopathy actually say that there is "no research" that has shows that homeopathic medicines work. Such statements are clearly false, and yet, such assertions are common on the Internet and even in some peer-review articles.

No, what scientists asy is that there are no good quality, peer-reviewed papers that show homeopathy works. There are a number of low-grade, selective, poorly conducted (or all three) papers that have been put into the public domain that support homeopathy, but they're no more use than the 'remedies' themselves.

Quote
Misstatements and misinformation on homeopathy are predictable because this system of medicine provides a viable and significant threat to economic interests in medicine, let alone to the very philosophy and worldview of biomedicine.

Ah, yes, the 'Big Pharma' conspiracy. If homeopathy worked, big pharma wouldn't be supressing it, they'd be selling it.

Of course, if homeopathy worked, we'd have all died from shit poisoning, given how often the water we drink has been through other people's intestines.

O.
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Owlswing

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2016, 10:17:09 AM »
You will have to excuse me but it is rubbish. Sheer unmitigated nonsense.

It is infinitely more beneficial for you to drink a glass of water.

This puts me in mind of a byline on here which ran if I remember correctly "I see gullible people - everywhere"

Thank you Trentvoyager M D - NOT!
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2016, 12:15:17 PM »
Thank you Trentvoyager M D - NOT!

If I had at any point claimed to be an MD then your post might have some relevance, as it is, it has none - except to prove that you think some youth terminology that is already more than somewhat outdated says anything about my position on this subject.

If you wish to portray yourself as a teenager do continue - but we all know you are not. Furthermore it does make you sound a little like your good friend JC, a comparison I'm sure you are happy with :P
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

floo

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2016, 12:37:43 PM »
At best I think homeopathy has a placebo effect, like prayer!

Owlswing

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2016, 01:13:14 PM »
If I had at any point claimed to be an MD then your post might have some relevance, as it is, it has none - except to prove that you think some youth terminology that is already more than somewhat outdated says anything about my position on this subject.

If you wish to portray yourself as a teenager do continue - but we all know you are not. Furthermore it does make you sound a little like your good friend JC, a comparison I'm sure you are happy with :P

You made a comment on a medical procedure - a seriously dismissive comment - which, without a medical qualification is of no value whatsoever. It is a personal belief and not a professional, and therefore relevant, opinion. The evaluation, an evaluation worth taking note of, without medical knowledge is pointless, rubbish, sheer unmitigated nonsense..
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Aruntraveller

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2016, 01:14:32 PM »
You made a comment on a medical procedure - a seriously dismissive comment - which, without a medical qualification is of no value whatsoever. It is a personal belief and not a professional, and therefore relevant, opinion. The evaluation, an evaluation worth taking note of, without medical knowledge is pointless, rubbish, sheer unmitigated nonsense..

what medical procedure?
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2016, 01:19:15 PM »
You made a comment on a medical procedure - a seriously dismissive comment - which, without a medical qualification is of no value whatsoever. It is a personal belief and not a professional, and therefore relevant, opinion. The evaluation, an evaluation worth taking note of, without medical knowledge is pointless, rubbish, sheer unmitigated nonsense..

Trent made no comment on any 'medical procedure'

ippy

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 01:56:21 PM »
Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo,  Homeopathy placebo.

Apart from the obvious, what's the difference?

ippy   

L.A.

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 03:00:06 PM »
Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo,  Homeopathy placebo.

Apart from the obvious, what's the difference?

ippy
But the placebo effect works and homeopathy is a harmless way of exploiting this phenomena - so where is the problem?
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Owlswing

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2016, 03:02:40 PM »
what medical procedure?

Therein lies the differnce in our perspective.

Homeopathy involves the administration of a substance, a medicine. The prescribing of medicines are recognised as being the area of expertise of the medical profession; therefore its adminstration to a patient is a "medical procedure".
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2016, 03:03:22 PM »
Trent made no comment on any 'medical procedure'

See #18
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An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2016, 03:04:29 PM »
Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo, Homeopathy placebo,  Homeopathy placebo.

Apart from the obvious, what's the difference?

ippy

None - they both work.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2016, 03:05:18 PM »
But the placebo effect works and homeopathy is a harmless way of exploiting this phenomena - so where is the problem?

The problem is non-medical pedants
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

SqueakyVoice

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2016, 03:10:46 PM »
Therein lies the differnce in our perspective.

Homeopathy involves the administration of a substance, a medicine.
Nope, it involves charging gullible people for sugar pills.
Quote
The prescribing of medicines are recognised as being the area of expertise of the medical profession;
Which is why we have doctors and pharmacists to prescribe medicines. And why any old quack can sell homeopathic pills.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2016, 03:13:55 PM »
Therein lies the differnce in our perspective.

Homeopathy involves the administration of a substance, a medicine. The prescribing of medicines are recognised as being the area of expertise of the medical profession; therefore its adminstration to a patient is a "medical procedure".

So all witch doctors conduct 'medical procedures' - note prescription isn't usually seen as a medical procedure.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Homeopathy!
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2016, 03:15:50 PM »
But the placebo effect works and homeopathy is a harmless way of exploiting this phenomena - so where is the problem?

Is it harmless tpo prescribe something such as homeopathy for Ebola p that doesn't work? That if the person uses it will die? Is that harmless?