Author Topic: Sex education  (Read 25300 times)

floo

  • Guest
Sex education
« on: February 08, 2016, 03:45:00 PM »
Should parents have the right to remove their children from school sex education classes?

I think the answer to that is a resounding NO! Of course parents should discuss the facts of life with their children in an age appropriate way, as we did with our kids. However, some parents, even in this day and age, through embarrassment maybe, or for weird religious reasons, don't give their kids proper sex education. Therefore, like Maths and English it should be a compulsory subject from which children cannot be removed.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Sex education
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 04:11:10 PM »
Should parents have the right to remove their children from school sex education classes?

I think the answer to that is a resounding NO! Of course parents should discuss the facts of life with their children in an age appropriate way, as we did with our kids. However, some parents, even in this day and age, through embarrassment maybe, or for weird religious reasons, don't give their kids proper sex education. Therefore, like Maths and English it should be a compulsory subject from which children cannot be removed.
I agree.

I doubt if very many parents are qualified to give age-appropriate, thorough and above all accurate information, so if they can't do it the professionals will have to. Almost everyone, with very few exceptions, has a sexual life and anything that can make that better - happier, healthier, safer and more informed - is to the good. We don't have to guess, we have the evidence to demonstrate that good-quality, comprehensive sex education, started early, results in fewer unwanted pregnancies (and possibly STIs). It's a win-win situation.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Sex education
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 04:53:37 PM »
I've always been as open with my children as I can be about sex - I did once explain why 69 is so hilarious to teenage boys by drawing a diagram on the back of an envelope. Whether this is the case for most parents I don't know - it's not something that other mums talk about.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Sex education
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 04:55:18 PM »
I've always been as open with my children as I can be about sex - I did once explain why 69 is so hilarious to teenage boys by drawing a diagram on the back of an envelope.
I do hope that you didn't neglect to explain that the only problem is the view.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

  • Guest
Re: Sex education
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 06:00:44 PM »
As soon as our children were old enough to ask questions about where babies came from(usually around the age of three), I answered them honestly in an age appropriate way. No subject was ever taboo in our home, and the dinner table conversations could be X rated at times! I did however have one proviso that the subject of sex was not alluded to if my Mother was visiting, she would have died, as she was the world's biggest prude!

Before I started secondary school my Mother was supposed to have told me about periods, and the where babies came from talk! She nearly died, and I said I knew all about it to save us both being embarrassed. I had a fairly hazy notion about both topics at the age of 11. Mum was very remiss because she left it to me to instruct my younger siblings, before they went to secondary school, which really wasn't on!

Sex education at my school, (all girls) was dealt with in the biology class when we were 15. It was HILARIOUS! The biology master was highly embarrassed when teaching us about the birds and the bees, we probably knew more about the topic than him, as sex was invented in the 60s. ;D To add to the poor guy's embarrassment we teased him, "Ooh Sir you are going as red as your tie!" ;D

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Sex education
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 07:40:27 PM »
As I suspected, you really didn't need the state to teach you about sex at all Floo.
The state must respect fully the values of every family. And this can't be done when they bring in groups like planned parenthood that teach sex outside of marriage is fine and anything goes. No, the state can teach 2+2 but it criminal, in my opinion, to force feed the sexual values of planned parenthood down children's throats. Parents love their children and have the experience, to the state your child is just another young face that it is charged with educating.

If you found that your young girls were being taught what in you view is NOT age appropriate, what then? Do you not feel you were capable of teaching your children about sex? Don't use your deceased mother as an excuse to get of the hook. Your mother tried, and you did, but now you say parents shouldn't bother, let the state take over. Cop out in my opinion.

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: Sex education
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 08:06:37 PM »
Should parents have the right to remove their children from school sex education classes?

I think the answer to that is a resounding NO! Of course parents should discuss the facts of life with their children in an age appropriate way, as we did with our kids. However, some parents, even in this day and age, through embarrassment maybe, or for weird religious reasons, don't give their kids proper sex education. Therefore, like Maths and English it should be a compulsory subject from which children cannot be removed.

The problem is, Floo, that the form some parental sex education takes is dealt with in the "Incest" thread.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 08:09:37 PM by Owlswing »
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8053
Re: Sex education
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 08:16:27 PM »
State sex ed equals propaganda. Leave it to the parents, it's their job.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: Sex education
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 08:36:04 PM »
State sex ed equals propaganda. Leave it to the parents, it's their job.

see #6
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Sex education
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 08:37:55 PM »
State sex ed equals propaganda. Leave it to the parents, it's their job.
So we leave kids to be at best fed misinformation, half-information and some downright dingbattery, and at worst left ignorant? Stunning answer there to giving kids an education.

Tell me: does this desire on your part to have parents teach their kids extend to history, geography, maths and art, or is it only sex that this applies to?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 08:43:42 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Sex education
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2016, 10:11:22 PM »
I was lucky that I grew up with Just 17 magazine. It took it upon itself to educate its readership about sex, relationships and associated subjects (prositution for example). Bloody good job too because my parents told me absolutely nothing. And this is why I am the opposite.

I want my kids to know that they can talk to me about anything. The danger in school sex ed is that parents think they don't need to bother, when actually always having dialogue open with children is so important.

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11690
Re: Sex education
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2016, 11:28:43 PM »
Quote
The state must respect fully the values of every family.

Why?

Do you respect the values of every wingnut you come across?

I'm sorry you are way off on this one. I don't want to turn this thread into a conversation about gay kids - but just think of the havoc caused to  gay kids in families that are deeply homophobic.

Those kids need to hear rational voices about sex and sexuality telling them that they are ok. They do not need to internalise the hatred that their parents have.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Owlswing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6945
Re: Sex education
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2016, 12:10:01 AM »
Why?

Do you respect the values of every wingnut you come across?

I'm sorry you are way off on this one. I don't want to turn this thread into a conversation about gay kids - but just think of the havoc caused to  gay kids in families that are deeply homophobic.

Those kids need to hear rational voices about sex and sexuality telling them that they are ok. They do not need to internalise the hatred that their parents have.

How many, worldwide, have suicided because of their parents, usually religious, homophobia!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18013
Re: Sex education
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2016, 07:33:50 AM »
State sex ed equals propaganda. Leave it to the parents, it's their job.
And if they don't do it, or do it badly, or using the propaganda associated with their religious dogma?

No AO sex and relationship education is far too important to be left to the whims of parents who may or may not do the job properly. Every child has a right to learn about sex in an unbiased manner and the only way to ensure that happens is for it be compulsory within schooling.

And the notion that sex and relationship education in schooling equals propaganda is laughable. Frankly the only people who might try to portray it as such are those who really want to use propaganda - the propaganda associated with their religious dogma.

ProfessorDavey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18013
Re: Sex education
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 07:43:43 AM »
The state must respect fully the values of every family.
The state's responsibility to protect children is greater than the right for every family to be left alone by the state.

That's why there are state powers to intervene, even to remove children from families, where there are concerns over child welfare, for example abuse or neglect.

That's why (in the UK) very child has the right to a proper, broad and balanced education and although parents can do this at home, they are required to do so to a suitable standard or the state can, quite rightly, intervene.

floo

  • Guest
Re: Sex education
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 08:25:19 AM »
State sex ed equals propaganda. Leave it to the parents, it's their job.

Parents often don't know how to handle the topic properly!

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8053
Re: Sex education
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2016, 08:50:24 AM »
Parents often don't know how to handle the topic properly!

And state sex ed is open to propaganda from all sorts of pressure groups.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Gordon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18669
Re: Sex education
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2016, 09:09:57 AM »
And state sex ed is open to propaganda from all sorts of pressure groups.

Surely though sex education would be taught, and monitored, according to a curriculum - just as for any other subject - so that once professional education planners sort out the details it isn't the case that pressure groups could exert undue influence.

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Sex education
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2016, 09:12:20 AM »
And state sex ed is open to propaganda from all sorts of pressure groups.
Such as? Be specific. Name names - tell us all who these "all sorts of pressure groups" are. Don't hide behind your waving hands - tell us.

The only pressure groups I can think of are religious organisations which have a vested interest in keeping kids ignorant - and at worst, in some cases pumping out misinformation or, since I'm a plain-speaking man who dislikes euphemism, outright lies.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 09:15:58 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

  • Guest
Re: Sex education
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2016, 09:14:01 AM »
I don't know if homosexuality is covered in school sex ed these days, but it should be. Kids should be taught it is totally normal.

john

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1114
Re: Sex education
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2016, 09:16:24 AM »
It seems clear to me that the only people who oppose sex education by professionals, are the religious who wish to pursue an agenda to further their own ends rather than the best interests of children.
"Try again. Fail again. Fail Better". Samuel Beckett

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Sex education
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2016, 09:17:04 AM »
It seems clear to me that the only people who oppose sex education by professionals, are the religious who wish to pursue an agenda to further their own ends rather than the best interests of children.
Got it in one.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

  • Guest
Re: Sex education
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2016, 09:21:48 AM »
It seems clear to me that the only people who oppose sex education by professionals, are the religious who wish to pursue an agenda to further their own ends rather than the best interests of children.

That would appear to be the case, and only the more extreme religious people at that!

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Sex education
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2016, 09:47:55 AM »
I've only ever know one family take their child out of sex ed classes - they are Catholics.

My kids have gone through the standard sex ed classes and there's nothing remarkable about them. They didn't come home clutching propaganda in any form and the biggest issue appears to be the embarrassment of classmates.

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8053
Re: Sex education
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2016, 10:00:34 AM »
Such as? Be specific. Name names - tell us all who these "all sorts of pressure groups" are. Don't hide behind your waving hands - tell us.

The only pressure groups I can think of are religious organisations which have a vested interest in keeping kids ignorant - and at worst, in some cases pumping out misinformation or, since I'm a plain-speaking man who dislikes euphemism, outright lies.

Such as pro-abortion and pro-homosexual groups, teaching people immorality. We would need the same sort of laws as in Russia.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.