Richard Dawkins unwell

[Hope]

That thought had occurred to me as well Len. There is a certain amount of pride suggested that I find most unappetizing.

Good to see you equating reality with pride, TV.

In the same way that family members will sometimes wish an elderly relative dead so that they can inherit the person's money, there will sometimes be people who pray for someone else's recovery because of their perceived need of that person's support, a perception that may either be holding their development back or is in some other way 'unhealthy/unhelpful'. 

[Gordon]

Moderator:

As it stands this thread has progressed in a manner that isn't appropriate for the 'Prayer' Board, so rather than split the posts, and since RD is well known as a writer, it has been moved here in the first instance.

[Aruntraveller]

Good to see you equating reality with pride, TV.

In the same way that family members will sometimes wish an elderly relative dead so that they can inherit the person's money, there will sometimes be people who pray for someone else's recovery because of their perceived need of that person's support, a perception that may either be holding their development back or is in some other way 'unhealthy/unhelpful'.

Look at what you posted and reflect on how it reads.. instead of posting stuff i already fully realise.

[Bubbles]

Good to see you equating reality with pride, TV.

In the same way that family members will sometimes wish an elderly relative dead so that they can inherit the person's money, there will sometimes be people who pray for someone else's recovery because of their perceived need of that person's support, a perception that may either be holding their development back or is in some other way 'unhealthy/unhelpful'.

Hope.

People faced with a terminal illness who pray for healing, really mean it.

It's not their fault or of relatives who pray for them, that they don't get it.

You are shifting the blame, because prayers haven't been answered.

That's a form of cognative dissonance to explain why prayers don't appear to be answered.

Ie: It's someone else's fault.

IMO it's never the ill person or the people who care for them, fault.

 

[Hope]

People faced with a terminal illness who pray for healing, really mean it.

It's not their fault or of relatives who pray for them, that they don't get it.

You are shifting the blame, because prayers haven't been answered.

That's a form of cognative dissonance to explain why prayers don't appear to be answered.

No it isn't, Rose.  Whilst I'd agree that those who are suffering from any particular condition 'really mean it', (and I've never suggested otherwise), there also relatives and friends who have other motives in their prayer.  Perhaps they want their parent to survive as they feel that they couldn't survive without them; then there are those who pray for healing assuming that the patient wants to recover, whilst the patient might be quite happy to fade away (and in such cases, whose prayer is more important for God to honour?). 

Ie: It's someone else's fault.

IMO it's never the ill person or the people who care for them, fault.

 

As I've never suggested that it is anyone's fault (we are all going to die - or get ill - at some point in our lives), your post is largely moot.

[Leonard James]

...then there are those who pray for healing assuming that the patient wants to recover, whilst the patient might be quite happy to fade away (and in such cases, whose prayer is more important for God to honour?). 

Then of course there are cases of terminal illnesses where people are suffering terribly, physically and mentally, who want to die, but can't.

They have to rely on the few people who have the humanity and courage to help them die, while your "God" (who doesn't exist, of course) stands by and heartlessly lets them suffer.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Then of course there are cases of terminal illnesses where people are suffering terribly, physically and mentally, who want to die, but can't.

They have to rely on the few people who have the humanity and courage to help them die,

Len, I don't think that those who won't or cannot do this lack humanity or courage nor can you guarantee that all involved do this from humanity or courage.

[Leonard James]

Len, I don't think that those who won't or cannot do this lack humanity or courage nor can you guarantee that all involved do this from humanity or courage.

True, but the net result is that these unfortunate people are helped by other humans but ignored by this supposed loving "God".

[Walt Zingmatilder]

True, but the net result is that these unfortunate people are helped by other humans but ignored by this supposed loving "God".

Well that certainly isn't the case in Christianity where the dead are resurrected and their eternal choice is respected.

[Hope]

True, but the net result is that these unfortunate people are helped by other humans but ignored by this supposed loving "God".

And your evidence for this assertion is ...?  After all if, as I and many others believe, God is the source of the brains and dexterity that the surgeons and others have isn't this simply another example of God using people to do his work amongst the people such folk serve?  Do you have any evidence to show that this isn't the case?

[Hope]

Well that certainly isn't the case in Christianity where the dead are resurrected and their eternal choice is respected.

But Hugh, remember that 'eternal choice' is something that many non-believers feel that God shouldn't be respecting.  That attitude reflects their view of God as a monster, a vile being, etc.  (Check out Floo's posts, for example, on the nature of God for other terminology )

[Shaker]

And your evidence for this assertion is ...?  After all if, as I and many others believe, God is the source of the brains and dexterity that the surgeons and others have isn't this simply another example of God using people to do his work amongst the people such folk serve?  Do you have any evidence to show that this isn't the case?

1, as ippy would say.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But Hugh, remember that 'eternal choice' is something that many non-believers feel that God shouldn't be respecting.  That attitude reflects their view of God as a monster, a vile being, etc.  (Check out Floo's posts, for example, on the nature of God for other terminology )

Len James has God as both a terrible tyrant or an ineffectual dependent on Len's audience.

[jeremyp]

Moderator:

As it stands this thread has progressed in a manner that isn't appropriate for the 'Prayer' Board, so rather than split the posts, and since RD is well known as a writer, it has been moved here in the first instance.

But he is primarily a science writer.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But he is primarily a science writer.

I'm glad he is now being referred to what he is rather than guff like "our foremost scientist"

[jeremyp]

I'm glad he is now being referred to what he is rather than guff like "our foremost scientist"

Who claims he is our foremost scientist?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Who claims he is our foremost scientist?

I said guff like itan ancient catholic conspiracy.

[jeremyp]

I said guff like it.

Please clarify. Are you claiming that you were the one who said "Dawkins is our foremost scientist" or that you said some other guff a bit like it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Please clarify. Are you claiming that you were the one who said "Dawkins is our foremost scientist" or that you said some other guff a bit like it.

Yes sorry ...I've made the correction.

[OH MY WORLD!]

It's good to wish the ill a speedy recovery. It's disgusting and repulsive to get off on a persons death, no matter if one is politically opposite of the deceased. Just go to the Judge Scalia thread for an example of type of repulsive people at their best.
So I wish Dick a speedy recovery.

[Sassy]

Why? What good can it possibly do for RD? Do you seriously think there is some God who will pay attention to those prayers and then do something to improve his condition? Should he rely on some imaginary god to help him regain  fitness, or is it better to rely on 300 mg soluble aspirin, correct pills for blood pressure, exercises
advised by physiotherapists, support from Stroke experts, etc etc.
 And I suppose I might just as well delete all that, but I have decided not to!

Surely, if we as human beings, be we  Atheist or Christian can be concerned about a human being independent of their religious stance. Then who is to say God is not  where the knowledge of Aspirin and medication and physiotherapy came from out of concern for none  believers?

Does it harm anyone to pray for healing and restoration?
Does it harm anyone to give them medication?

In the scheme of things surely all things that comfort those who are concerned or tending the sick are a measure of healing for them and the concerned. I cannot close my eyes and believe that those who are atheists should not be prayed for.
I personally believe those without faith need the experience of both medicine and concerned prayers of people who care for them. After all both express the willingness to support the person in need. Express away is what I say...