Brussels

[Nearly Sane]

Something like this shows the worst of what we can do; it also will bring out the best, and we can't do those who are showing any tiny act of live or compassion or just doing what they do the disservice of labelling them as 'fucked up.'

I haven't labelled any individuals as fucked up, just the species, and that we do this worst/best thing seems the nature of the fuck up
 That we might blame this on nutters, on indoctrination, on the otherness of some because we see them as different, is part of the fucked upness. They are some other side of the species (at least that is what Jack Knave's post seems to imply). It's just us, as ever the monster, the other, the thing feared and hated, is just us.

[Bubbles]

Quite! That is what I said in the first place.

"That nicely encapsulates the kind of sick thinking that religious superstitions can indoctrinate people's minds with."

The minority, Leonard.

( at least I sincerely hope so )

Otherwise, should I regard every Muslim as dodgy?

[Nearly Sane]

You put it on the negative side.

Then you balance it against the selfless and compassionate things religions influence people to do.

Religions are people, there isn't anything else. They create the horror and the compassion. They aren't external. They are the manifestation of our best, worst, most mediocre. They are our alpha, omega and our mu. We make them in our image
 

[Leonard James]

The minority, Leonard.

Yes, fortunately human common sense prevails over religious rot ... otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it.

[Bubbles]

Religions are people, there isn't anything else. They create the horror and the compassion. They aren't external. They are the manifestation of our best, worst, most mediocre. They are our alpha, omega and our mu. We make them in our image

So perhaps striving for the positive has a point then.

🌹

[jeremyp]

You put it on the negative side.

Seriously?

How many food parcels do you need to send to Africa to balance one murder. What's the rate of exchange?

And why do we have to balance murder? Why don't we see the acts as independent?

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, fortunately human common sense prevails over religious rot ... otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it.

Religious rot is part of human common sense in the sense of being common.

[Nearly Sane]

So perhaps striving for the positive has a point then.

🌹

The positive what? Someone thought the blowing up of those people was a positive.

[Leonard James]

Religious rot is part of human common sense in the sense of being common.

True, but some of us are intelligent enough to distinguish good common sense from bad! 

[Rhiannon]

I haven't labelled any individuals as fucked up, just the species, and that we do this worst/best thing seems the nature of the fuck up
 That we might blame this on nutters, on indoctrination, on the otherness of some because we see them as different, is part of the fucked upness. They are some other side of the species (at least that is what Jack Knave's post seems to imply). It's just us, as ever the monster, the other, the thing feared and hated, is just us.

Yes, I agree, it is just us. We've always been the same. What I don't see though is fucked up; just deeply flawed.

So a question of degree then.

[Nearly Sane]

Seriously?

How many food parcels do you need to send to Africa to balance one murder. What's the rate of exchange?

And why do we have to balance murder? Why don't we see the acts as independent?

Depends on who you murder, and who you are and when you lived. It's a floating exchange rate and sometimes it will take anything from a million to one meals for a murder. Sometimes murder is an absolute good. It was for the OT. JC may or may not have changed it dependent on the percentage of OT you saved under your mattress. Some new JC currency has almost no OT impact.
For other currencies, your country of origin may have an impact and the exchange against virgins/raisins is also important. 
Best not try to use Scottish notes in England, or any note at all in the Middle East.

[Bubbles]

The positive what? Someone thought the blowing up of those people was a positive.

That's because they were warped.

[Nearly Sane]

That's because they were warped.

They don't think so, and why post that they were warped but the nice religuous people are influenced nicely by religion. Your position is inconsistent

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, I agree, it is just us. We've always been the same. What I don't see though is fucked up; just deeply flawed.

So a question of degree then.

Deeply flawed is fucked up on non bombed days. Not degree just question of bile.

[Bubbles]

They don't think so, and why post that they were warped but the nice religuous people are influenced nicely by religion. Your position is inconsistent

Not from my perspective.

It's like accepting the actions of  the Westboro church don't reflect Christianity as a whole.

So these fanatics don't represent Islam as a whole.

The alternative is to become islamaphobic.

Not sure I am ready for that just yet.

[Rhiannon]

Deeply flawed is fucked up on non bombed days. Not degree just question of bile.

No, I think if we were truly fucked then kindness/compassion/bravery/ selflessness/love couldn't exist at all.

[jeremyp]

Not from my perspective.

It's like accepting the actions of  the Westboro church don't reflect Christianity as a whole.

Do the actions of a subset of Christians affect Christianity as a whole in general? Or is it just the ones that do good things?

It seems to me that, if you are going to claim some self sacrifice for the common good on the part of a Christian as being a positive point for Christianity generally, you also need to accept evil done on the part of a Christian as being a negative point for Christianity generally. If Christianity wants the credit for William Wilberforce, it also needs to accept the blame for Fred Phelps.

[Bubbles]

Do the actions of a subset of Christians affect Christianity as a whole in general? Or is it just the ones that do good things?

It seems to me that, if you are going to claim some self sacrifice for the common good on the part of a Christian as being a positive point for Christianity generally, you also need to accept evil done on the part of a Christian as being a negative point for Christianity generally. If Christianity wants the credit for William Wilberforce, it also needs to accept the blame for Fred Phelps.

Yes it does.


Religion can lead to both positive and negative things.

I take your point, and yes I think you make a valid point.

[Nearly Sane]

No, I think if we were truly fucked then kindness/compassion/bravery/ selflessness/love couldn't exist at all.

Bravery has killed, murdered many more than cowardice. Compassion has justified millions of deaths. Selflessness has produced suicide bombers.

[Nearly Sane]

Not from my perspective.

It's like accepting the actions of  the Westboro church don't reflect Christianity as a whole.

So these fanatics don't represent Islam as a whole.

The alternative is to become islamaphobic.

Not sure I am ready for that just yet.

No, the alternative isn't that. You seem to argue that what happened in Brussels was because the people were warped, but when people do good in the religion it is attributable in some way to the religion. This is inconsistent logically.

[OH MY WORLD!]

True Islam- "So be not weak and ask for peace, while you are having the upper hand. Allah is with you, and will never decrease the rewards of your good deeds."   Quran 47:35

I noted the boos and shouts from the Muslims gathers on the streets as the authorities were driving out of their neighborhood.

[Rhiannon]

Bravery has killed, murdered many more than cowardice. Compassion has justified millions of deaths. Selflessness has produced suicide bombers.

You may be right. And the converse is true. There will be people in Brussels right now giving of themselves in ways that I can't imagine. For as long as we have those that do so, we aren't fucked.

[Nearly Sane]

You may be right. And the converse is true. There will be people in Brussels right now giving of themselves in ways that I can't imagine. For as long as we have those that do so, we aren't fucked.

ah, now we are deep in the differing uses of fuck. Being fucked up, doesn't mean you are fucked. Leaving aside the apocryphal idea of snow for Eskimaux, even if they are not the only gay ones in the tribe, fuck is the single most adaptable word in Glaswegian

[Shaker]

You may be right. And the converse is true. There will be people in Brussels right now giving of themselves in ways that I can't imagine. For as long as we have those that do so, we aren't fucked.

There's an old Jewish story (actually, there's an old Jewish story that there's an old Jewish story for everything - but that's for another time) to the effect that the world only exists and keeps on going because there are, specifically, 36 righteous people (Lamed Vavniks, as they're known) scattered across the planet who continue to justify humanity to God, who lets the world carry on rolling along on their account because they demonstrate how good people can be.

That's just an old tale. The good news is that at any one time there are vastly many more than 36 such people in the world.

[Nearly Sane]

I only believe in one


'In every generation there is a Chosen One. She alone will stand against the vampires, the demons, and the forces of darkness. She is the Slayer.'