Author Topic: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?  (Read 17646 times)

Leonard James

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #100 on: March 31, 2016, 06:29:55 AM »
Hi Owl,

What a touching and horrifying story. My heart goes out to you.

Most of us had no idea of these things happening in the past, but thanks to education and the internet something is now being done about it.

The religious stranglehold is broken now for ever, and I hope religion itself suffers the same fate.

Owlswing

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #101 on: March 31, 2016, 06:39:05 AM »
Hi Owl,

What a touching and horrifying story. My heart goes out to you.

Most of us had no idea of these things happening in the past, but thanks to education and the internet something is now being done about it.

The religious stranglehold is broken now for ever, and I hope religion itself suffers the same fate.

Thanks for that LJ, but can I please ask which post this refers to?

It's been a long and awful night and I haven't slept yet!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Leonard James

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2016, 06:45:25 AM »
Thanks for that LJ, but can I please ask which post this refers to?

It's been a long and awful night and I haven't slept yet!

Post #98 ... all that stuff about your father. Frightening.

Bubbles

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #103 on: March 31, 2016, 07:36:21 AM »
Post #98 ... all that stuff about your father. Frightening.
Len
Yes, it is. but it is the sort of thing that happened then. Parents don't react perfectly when their children do something they weren't expecting.

Owlswing

However it's unfair, Owlswing, to put your words in OMW posts, because it's unfair to bring him into it. He can't defend himself.

In all the years I have seen him (OMW )posting I haven't seen him " have a go" at Leonard or Trent because of homosexuality.

Have you?

If he had a go at you, it's also true that you had a go at him and you still are, even though he isn't even here.

Stop holding grudges, let it go.
What happened with Christians in 1970s isn't the fault of Christians here now, even if they don't agree with you.








« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 07:44:14 AM by Rose »

Leonard James

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #104 on: March 31, 2016, 08:43:04 AM »
Len
Yes, it is. but it is the sort of thing that happened then. Parents don't react perfectly when their children do something they weren't expecting.


What makes you think it doesn't happen now in the more backward areas of the USA?

Rhiannon

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #105 on: March 31, 2016, 08:47:44 AM »
Or in the UK.

Leonard James

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #106 on: March 31, 2016, 09:35:43 AM »
Or in the UK.

Are there still such fanatical parents in the UK? I have no idea because I haven't been back for many years, but the general impression I get from the press and tv programmes is that it's a thing of the past there.

Please don't tell me I'm wrong.   :(

Aruntraveller

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #107 on: March 31, 2016, 09:45:53 AM »
Hi Owlswing


What a very sad thing to happen to you.

I know it is not really any consolation to you personally but at least things are now moving in the right direction on trans issues.

To pick up on Rose's point about OMW - I can state that he has never been homophobic to me - indeed I get on quite well with him even tho he drives me nuts sometimes.

I know you have your differences, but that appears to be more to do with attitudes to paganism than any other issues.

Either way he ain't here so not much point discussing him.

Just bear in mind that the reaction you get on here from a very few is extreme and should be ignored most of the time (I know it's difficult - even I don't follow my own advice!)

My very best wishes to you.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Rhiannon

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2016, 10:03:44 AM »
Are there still such fanatical parents in the UK? I have no idea because I haven't been back for many years, but the general impression I get from the press and tv programmes is that it's a thing of the past there.

Please don't tell me I'm wrong.   :(

I'm not aware of it in conservative Christians, Len, but we have religious fundamentalism from other faiths on the rise.

Owlswing

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2016, 10:04:57 AM »
Len
Yes, it is. but it is the sort of thing that happened then. Parents don't react perfectly when their children do something they weren't expecting.

Owlswing

However it's unfair, Owlswing, to put your words in OMW posts, because it's unfair to bring him into it. He can't defend himself.

In all the years I have seen him (OMW )posting I haven't seen him " have a go" at Leonard or Trent because of homosexuality.

Have you?

If he had a go at you, it's also true that you had a go at him and you still are, even though he isn't even here.

Stop holding grudges, let it go.
What happened with Christians in 1970s isn't the fault of Christians here now, even if they don't agree with you.

I intend to stop holding grudges but I ask that you see my side of it when others are here saying what a great bloke he was and how missed he will be!

Just let me say that he will not be missed by me and I will let it go at that.

OK?
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2016, 10:12:53 AM »
Hi Owlswing


What a very sad thing to happen to you.

I know it is not really any consolation to you personally but at least things are now moving in the right direction on trans issues.

To pick up on Rose's point about OMW - I can state that he has never been homophobic to me - indeed I get on quite well with him even tho he drives me nuts sometimes.

I know you have your differences, but that appears to be more to do with attitudes to paganism than any other issues.

Either way he ain't here so not much point discussing him.

Just bear in mind that the reaction you get on here from a very few is extreme and should be ignored most of the time (I know it's difficult - even I don't follow my own advice!)

My very best wishes to you.

OK, it may well be that I have misread some of his comments but there were a lot that were incapable of misinterpretation.

However, as has been said, he is not here so I must let my problems from that direction fade into history. I will try to do so!

Thank you for you comments on the other matters - it is really hard trying to go forward when so much of what I dreamed of for myself had no chance of ever becoming fact.

I just hope that I have managed to show why I am so uptight about some topics which, without #96, seemed to have no personal connection to me.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Aruntraveller

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2016, 10:15:46 AM »
Quote
it is really hard trying to go forward when so much of what I dreamed of for myself had no chance of ever becoming fact.

You've just made this old softie shed a tear.

I really do feel for you.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Rhiannon

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #112 on: March 31, 2016, 10:17:24 AM »
Absolutely, Trent.

Owlswing

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #113 on: March 31, 2016, 10:46:34 AM »

Lady Rhi and Trent

Thanks both!

All I have said does not change the fact that I have things of which I am proud, my children, and I have done things that I never dreamed of when I was young, some of which would get me banned from this forum and others that would get me locked up and the key thrown away!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Bubbles

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #114 on: March 31, 2016, 01:27:06 PM »
I intend to stop holding grudges but I ask that you see my side of it when others are here saying what a great bloke he was and how missed he will be!

Just let me say that he will not be missed by me and I will let it go at that.

OK?

Yes of course.
It's not your fault he has gone anyway, he chose to go, because a comment from someone else upset him.

You sound like you have caring children Owlswing, who you are justifiably proud of, judging by how you describe their attitudes to various things.

I'm sorry things weren't more open minded then, but maybe if they were, you would never have had them.
:)

I hope going forward, you find peace and acceptance.

Obviously you have had plenty of experience of the whole issue.

🌹


Bubbles

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #115 on: March 31, 2016, 01:38:40 PM »
What makes you think it doesn't happen now in the more backward areas of the USA?

I think it does still happen in that parents sometimes expect children to live up to what they are expecting.

Parents are human and get it wrong and react sometimes in ways not perfect.

It's how they visualise their children, like going to university etc. Some parents are more competitive on behalf of their children...... Or are more controlling thinking they are helping.

Mind you, some parents accept their children's choices and how they really are, rather than how they think they ought to be.

Some parents live their lives through their children's successes, sometimes even having ideas on the sort of person their child should marry.

It's part of a whole range of things a few parents inflict on their offspring, they are controlling.

An example I have come across is a 40year old single man living at home whose elderly mother declared she would do something drastic, if he ever brought a woman home.

I was appalled, it's a form of emotional blackmail and control.

Songs have been written about controlling mothers.

https://www.flashlyrics.com/lyrics/sons-of-maxwell/sonnys-dream-26

Unfortunately there are still controlling parents.

It happens.

I can see that being gay, etc could be an issue for a controlling parent.

They might not be religious just controlling.

I think it's something in our protective reflex, which some people use violence or threat of to reinforce.

It's when mothering turns to smothering, and dads can do it to.

The problem is I think they think they are helping at the time :(




« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 01:55:38 PM by Rose »

Leonard James

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #116 on: March 31, 2016, 01:47:19 PM »
I think it does still happen in that parents sometimes expect children to live up to what they are expecting.

Parents are human and get it wrong and react sometimes in ways not perfect.

It's how they visualise their children, like going to university etc. Some parents are more competitive on behalf of their children...... Or are more controlling thinking they are helping.

Mind you, some parents accept their children's choices and how they really are, rather than how they think they ought to be.

Some parents live their lives through their children's successes, sometimes even having ideas on the sort of person their child should marry.

It's part of a whole range of things a few parents inflict on their offspring, they are controlling.

An example I have come across is a 40year old man whose elderly mother declared she would do something drastic, if he ever brought a woman home.

Songs have been written about controlling mothers.

https://www.flashlyrics.com/lyrics/sons-of-maxwell/sonnys-dream-26

Unfortunately there are still controlling parents.

It happens.

I can see that being gay, etc could be an issue for a controlling parent.

They might not be religious.

Chilling thought.

Brownie

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #117 on: March 31, 2016, 07:31:21 PM »
It certainly is chilling Leonard.
(((Owlswing))).  I found your account extremely moving and it made me feel ashamed though you know not all 'religionists' think the same way.  Very sad business about your father.

I didn't know Vlad had gone, wasn't he here earlier today?
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Owlswing

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #118 on: March 31, 2016, 09:20:38 PM »
It certainly is chilling Leonard.
(((Owlswing))).  I found your account extremely moving and it made me feel ashamed though you know not all 'religionists' think the same way.  Very sad business about your father.

I didn't know Vlad had gone, wasn't he here earlier today?

I wasn't referring to Vlad as having left!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

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Hope

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #119 on: March 31, 2016, 09:34:04 PM »
Chilling thought.
What, the fact that they might not be religious?   ;)
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Brownie

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #120 on: March 31, 2016, 10:30:18 PM »
I wasn't referring to Vlad as having left!

No, I didn't think you were.  I should have put a line first under my response to Len and then another one under what I said to you, before asking others if Vlad had left. 
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Leonard James

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #121 on: April 01, 2016, 06:19:20 AM »
What, the fact that they might not be religious?   ;)

Is there any other motivation for such ghastly behaviour?

Bubbles

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #122 on: April 01, 2016, 07:16:06 AM »
Is there any other motivation for such ghastly behaviour?

Yes, I think there is, unfortunately.


Leonard James

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #123 on: April 01, 2016, 07:28:58 AM »
Yes, I think there is, unfortunately.

Why would parents treat the sexuality of their children so badly other than from religious fanaticism?

Hope

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Re: Anti-trans - what is its basis in Christian doctrine?
« Reply #124 on: April 01, 2016, 07:31:47 AM »
Why would parents treat the sexuality of their children so badly other than from religious fanaticism?
So, Len, are you suggesting that everyone who takes a different view from you on the issue of sexuality is necessarily religiously fanatical, or even simply religious?  If so, I think you have a very warped view of humanity, as there are many non-religious people, even some atheists, who view sexuality differently to you.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

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