Academies

[Hope]

Whilst I'm not in favour of the Government's plan toforce all schools in England to become academies, I do believe thjat there is a place for loosening the strings that Local Authorities have on schools.

For instance (and this probably applies in other areas such as the NHS as well), most Local Authorites run supply consortia and schools are obliged to purchase books, stationery, etc. from these.  My experience is that the prices charged by these consortia are over the odds, and therefore a greater proportion of a school's budget is spent on such things than need be.  I suspect that, even now, there is a comparable monopoly in terms of energy supplies, phone & internet supplies, maintainance and decoration contracts, etc.  In some cases, this may result in cheaper rates based on bulk purchasing/availability, but not inevitably.

I believe that individual schools ought to be able to source equipment and services from wherever they wish - which is one of the things in which academies are different to Local Authority schools.

[ProfessorDavey]

Whilst I'm not in favour of the Government's plan toforce all schools in England to become academies, I do believe thjat there is a place for loosening the strings that Local Authorities have on schools.

For instance (and this probably applies in other areas such as the NHS as well), most Local Authorites run supply consortia and schools are obliged to purchase books, stationery, etc. from these.  My experience is that the prices charged by these consortia are over the odds, and therefore a greater proportion of a school's budget is spent on such things than need be.  I suspect that, even now, there is a comparable monopoly in terms of energy supplies, phone & internet supplies, maintainance and decoration contracts, etc.  In some cases, this may result in cheaper rates based on bulk purchasing/availability, but not inevitably.

Perhaps things are very different in Wales, but if not I do wonder whether you have any recent experience of schools and who they are run.

Local Authority schools have not been required to use LEA procurement for supplies. They have been able for years to make their own decisions as to whether, or not, they want to purchase via the consortium or not. Many do, because it is often cheaper because of economy of scale. But if a school can purchase cheaper elsewhere they are perfectly able to do so.

And academies are also able to purchase via the consortium should it be the best route - so the academisation programme has not effect in principle. It may however affect in practice. Once there are no longer LEA run schools then there is a strong possibility that all sorts of services that the LEA provides (not just procurement) will be disbanded as there is no LEA remit so to provide. Clusters of academies will then have to come together to sort out their own new consortium agreements to try to drive economies of scale - but these are unlikely to be as good as those that can be driven by larger LEA blocks.

I believe that individual schools ought to be able to source equipment and services from wherever they wish - which is one of the things in which academies are different to Local Authority schools.

They already are - see above.

[floo]

I think the LEAs should have input, I really don't like the academy idea, especially as they as sponsored by big business.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think the LEAs should have input, I really don't like the academy idea, especially as they as sponsored by big business.

Not all academies are sponsored at all, let alone by big business. In fact very few are. The schools where my kids go are both academies - neither is sponsored and certainly not by big business.

The senior school (where I am a governor) is a single stand alone academy, run in effect by its trustees, who are effectively the governing body.

The junior school (where my wife is a governor) is a little more complicated - it is part of a small multi-academy trust, involving it, its linked infant school and two others. There is an overarching board of trustees and each school has its own governing body. There is no big business sponsorship.

There is a big risk (and I think this is what the government wants) that single academies and small multi academy trusts will be untenable, forcing schools to join larger consortia, and in some cases with schools actively being forced to join. Some of those big trust chains are linked to either educational organisations or big business - the best example probably being Harris.

[Hope]

Perhaps things are very different in Wales, but if not I do wonder whether you have any recent experience of schools and who they are run.

My last experience of teaching in a school was 2012, and my last experience of teaching in an FE college was 2014; in both, the school/college had to use the local authority's chosen sources for resources.  So, perhaps it is different here in Wales.

[floo]

My husband, who is a retired secondary school head teacher, is appalled at the idea of every school becoming an academy. He is so glad he isn't a head any longer.

[Rhiannon]

I do favour parents having the right to play a part in opening schools where there is a need - children where I live have not got into the catchment school and most have got third or fourth choices that are miles away.

But the academy idea is appalling. Small schools won't be viable and big chains will be running the show. I suspect though that this is going to be another policy u-turn in the making.

[ProfessorDavey]

My last experience of teaching in a school was 2012, and my last experience of teaching in an FE college was 2014; in both, the school/college had to use the local authority's chosen sources for resources.  So, perhaps it is different here in Wales.

That certainly wasn't the case in England in 2012.

Are you sure the school was required to purchase via the local authority framework scheme, rather than chose to or even recommended to, but without a requirement.

And are you sure you aren't confusing a requirement to follow certain procurement rules with a requirement to purchase from a particular source. It is true that schools (as are most publicly funded bodies) are required to abide by set procurement rules - e.g. three quotes up to a certain cost, formal tender at higher levels etc. But that is entirely different to be required to purchase via a specific source.

[Hope]

But the academy idea is appalling. Small schools won't be viable and big chains will be running the show. I suspect though that this is going to be another policy u-turn in the making.

Policy u-turn?  I doubt it because you have to have a policy to do a u-turn from, and currently the Tories don't seem to have a policy relating to education - just ideas scribbled on the back of Parliamentary expenses forms.

[Hope]

That certainly wasn't the case in England in 2012.

Are you sure the school was required to purchase via the local authority framework scheme, rather than chose to or even recommended to, but without a requirement.

And are you sure you aren't confusing a requirement to follow certain procurement rules with a requirement to purchase from a particular source. It is true that schools (as are most publicly funded bodies) are required to abide by set procurement rules - e.g. three quotes up to a certain cost, formal tender at higher levels etc. But that is entirely different to be required to purchase via a specific source.

The school had to order supplies from a thick catalogue that had been produced and provided by the local authority.  Attempts to order from any other source were blocked by the LA's refusal to pay for the orders.

[Jack Knave]

This idea of making all schools academies is similar in ideology as the Health and Social Care Act. It has taken primary power away from the public bodies and opened the door for privatisation. The Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) have the power to provide half of its funding or contracts from private firms. This is a big step towards changing the NHS into an American style health service.

Who will be the people running and financing these academies? Won't the big companies have the means to run these at an initial below costing contract rate?

[Hope]

Who will be the people running and financing these academies? Won't the big companies have the means to run these at an initial below costing contract rate?

In some cases, it'll be local parents; in other cases it will be organisations who have aleady had experinece of running such academies.

As for the Health and Social Care Act, I understand that many healthcare professionals welcomed it when it was first proposed because they believed that it would ensure joined up thinking on health and social care - something that this country desparately requires.  Things have gone sour because of the way in which some Tory ministers have tried to hijack the concept.

[Jack Knave]

In some cases, it'll be local parents; in other cases it will be organisations who have aleady had experinece of running such academies.

I'm thinking long term here. It might look great now and libertarian and all that but it is a sneaky backdoor ploy to get the big companies in - and of course there's TTIP. It's as if the Tories are priming our whole system for the TTIP nightmare.

[ProfessorDavey]

The school had to order supplies from a thick catalogue that had been produced and provided by the local authority.  Attempts to order from any other source were blocked by the LA's refusal to pay for the orders.

If that's the case then it is certainly a peculiarly Welsh thing, and certainly not the case in England for LEA controlled (community) schools.

Most will regularly use 'county supplies' and other framework deals because they have already been through the tendering and procurement process making life easier, and also due to the massive purchasing power tend to be cheaper.

There is no obligation to go with them. There is however an obligation to follow standard public sector procurement rules, which would mean three quotes with a requirement to maximise value for money. So you could opt for another supplier if they were better value for money than county supplies, indeed you would effectively be required to under the procurement rules on value for money.

I must admit I find it hard to believe that Wales would be different. Certainly LEA procurement would (rightly) refuse to process payment if a school was buying 'off list' (i.e. not through their framework agreement) and there was no evidence that three quotes had been obtained. But that isn't because you had to buy through their framework, but because you have to follow standard procurement rules. Those are different things.

[Hope]

Certainly LEA procurement would (rightly) refuse to process payment if a school was buying 'off list' (i.e. not through their framework agreement) and there was no evidence that three quotes had been obtained. But that isn't because you had to buy through their framework, but because you have to follow standard procurement rules. Those are different things.

There was one particular case I remember where, not only were 3 quotes not obtained (but 5), the LA refused to sanction the purchase from another source even though the LA list quote was the most expensive and experience had told the schools in the area (yup, they did speak with each other) that materials obtained through this channel were the least cost effective.

[ProfessorDavey]

There was one particular case I remember where, not only were 3 quotes not obtained (but 5), the LA refused to sanction the purchase from another source even though the LA list quote was the most expensive and experience had told the schools in the area (yup, they did speak with each other) that materials obtained through this channel were the least cost effective.

Then they are numpties and not acting in accordance with overarching rules on use of public money, and possible purchasing law.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Whilst I'm not in favour of the Government's plan toforce all schools in England to become academies, I do believe thjat there is a place for loosening the strings that Local Authorities have on schools.

For instance (and this probably applies in other areas such as the NHS as well), most Local Authorites run supply consortia and schools are obliged to purchase books, stationery, etc. from these.  My experience is that the prices charged by these consortia are over the odds, and therefore a greater proportion of a school's budget is spent on such things than need be.  I suspect that, even now, there is a comparable monopoly in terms of energy supplies, phone & internet supplies, maintainance and decoration contracts, etc.  In some cases, this may result in cheaper rates based on bulk purchasing/availability, but not inevitably.

I believe that individual schools ought to be able to source equipment and services from wherever they wish - which is one of the things in which academies are different to Local Authority schools.

Everything you have said just increases public spending.
If there is a role for central government it would be to legislate against suppliers ripping off public service.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I support parental involvement in school but I also think we should hear how much is wasted in terms of pupil disruption and disrespect for property and petty vandalism and perhaps benefits cut for the parents of the worse offenders.
That would be a more useful and appropriate role for central government and encourage responsible citizenship.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Cant see how Morgan's persistence in presenting teachers as bonded workers servicing the economy and the public a la Downton Abbey by running crèche services is going to do much for recruitment and retention in the profession.

I wonder if they have no intention of doing it because of a snap election
or whether they are planning on the economy being so bad by the time this happens that people will be desperate for a job in teaching.

I can see many heads taking the latter of Morgan's options namely not having plans to become academies and forcing government to do the plans and the work themselves.

[Gordon]

Quick question, since here in Scotland education is a matter for Holyrood alone: in essence, is this 'academy' idea in England/Wales short-hand for privitisation?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Quick question, since here in Scotland education is a matter for Holyrood alone: in essence, is this 'academy' idea in England/Wales short-hand for privitisation?

I think it is about handing public assets land, buildings etc. over to private bodies and then paying them to run education, yes.

[Jack Knave]

Cant see how Morgan's persistence in presenting teachers as bonded workers servicing the economy and the public a la Downton Abbey by running crèche services is going to do much for recruitment and retention in the profession.

I wonder if they have no intention of doing it because of a snap election
or whether they are planning on the economy being so bad by the time this happens that people will be desperate for a job in teaching.

I can see many heads taking the latter of Morgan's options namely not having plans to become academies and forcing government to do the plans and the work themselves.

Snap election? Do you know something we don't, Vlad?

Though I do wonder if the Tories are going to hold themselves together with the referendum, Osborne's abortions and the NHS, and now this.

[L.A.]

Whilst I'm not in favour of the Government's plan toforce all schools in England to become academies, I do believe thjat there is a place for loosening the strings that Local Authorities have on schools.

For instance (and this probably applies in other areas such as the NHS as well), most Local Authorites run supply consortia and schools are obliged to purchase books, stationery, etc. from these.  My experience is that the prices charged by these consortia are over the odds, and therefore a greater proportion of a school's budget is spent on such things than need be.  I suspect that, even now, there is a comparable monopoly in terms of energy supplies, phone & internet supplies, maintainance and decoration contracts, etc.  In some cases, this may result in cheaper rates based on bulk purchasing/availability, but not inevitably.

I believe that individual schools ought to be able to source equipment and services from wherever they wish - which is one of the things in which academies are different to Local Authority schools.

Interesting article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32038695

It seems broadly to support the argument that most academies are doing well, and while not conclusive, there is no doubt that a lot of Local Authority schools are not doing well.

(perhaps someone ought to point this out to that fellow who thinks he runs the Labour party)

[Hope]

Interesting article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-32038695

It seems broadly to support the argument that most academies are doing well, and while not conclusive, there is no doubt that a lot of Local Authority schools are not doing well.

(perhaps someone ought to point this out to that fellow who thinks he runs the Labour party)

Whilst there is also evidence to suggest that the best performing academies used to be the best performing state schools, and the less well-performing academies used to be less-well performing state schools.

There are two types: converter academies (those previously with 'good' or 'outstanding' Ofsted grades that have converted to academy status) and sponsored academies (mostly underperforming schools converting to academy status and run by sponsors).

Comparing the most recent Ofsted grade of each type of school, converter academies are the most likely to be rated outstanding while sponsored academies are more likely than maintained schools to be graded requires improvement or inadequate. But this is to be expected as converters were high performing, and sponsored low performing, to begin with.

Evidence on the performance of academies compared to local authority schools is mixed. One analysis found generally little difference in GCSE performance between academies and similar local authority schools. There's little evidence available which looks at primaries.

https://fullfact.org/education/academies-and-maintained-schools-what-do-we-know/

[Hope]

Quick question, since here in Scotland education is a matter for Holyrood alone: in essence, is this 'academy' idea in England/Wales short-hand for privitisation?

Quick point - 'England', not England/Wales.  Like Scotland, education in Wales is a fully devolved matter.

Whether it is a short-hand for privatisation is open to debate.  There are several academy groups in England that are run by parents and on behalf of the local community - albeit not by or for the local authority.