Have you all sent back the EU brochure yet?

[Hope]

I find it bizarre that the government is sending out these brochures, I would have thought they should have been more impartial.

What's impartial about a Government, whose stated aim is to remain in the Union, creating a leaflet/booklet in support of their position? 

But no, these are official government ones with HM government on the front.

It gives the impression they are wetting themselves in case we vote to come out.

The Government are the ones with the figures on overall costings, etc.  No-one else.  In view of their stated view, I'd have thought that it would be irresponsible for them NOT to express and explain their position.

[ippy]

No comments needed, ippy.  'Dodgy Dave' - to quote 'Dodgy Dennis' will simply say - 'we already knew that there are some who want out'.

Yes you're probably right, I just hope it's a substantial pile of returns, mind you if he did see my name on one of the returns, I'm sure that on its own would have made him tremble, and spoil his nights sleep.

ippy

[jeremyp]

I can't believe it couldn't have been done cheaper, but the leaflet itself seems a legitimate thing to send out.

£9,000,000. Say 20,000,000 households = less than 50p each.

[jeremyp]

Perhaps the Out campaign ought to be allowed the same sum to send out a leaflet explaining their position.

They've got the Daily Fail.

[Bubbles]

£9,000,000. Say 20,000,000 households = less than 50p each.

less than 50p each?

IMO taxpayers money could have been better spent.

There are a lot of people in this country that could have benefitted if the money had been used differently, OAPs the disabled or even the NHS.

We didn't need relatively expensive brochures, a leaflet would have sufficed.

I suppose we are now going to get the government doing the scare tactic thingy they did with Scotland over the independance vote.

Plus the view already expressed by Hope that the government is the only group of people with enough info and brains to work out what's best for us.

As for the government being the only ones with the facts.............. I'm not convinced about that.

Especially after having read the brochure. There are no "facts" in it, just opinions and propaganda.

All they do is make a few statements based on what they imagine people's fears are and playing on them..

For instance listing how many people's jobs,they think relies on being part of the EU or how it's going to be harder and more expensive to go on holiday.

I shall wait to read the out campaign with interest.

Not sure how I'm going to vote yet, I'll probably vote to stay in, not for the reasons in the brochure.

But I do resent the feeling that the government are trying to use scare tactics to influence people.

Jobs, cost of living, holidays etc.

Spreading fear that it could all go horribly wrong.

I suppose it makes us all feel we've had our say, but I question the wisdom of allowing public opinion to sway the choices of what is good for this country as a whole if the vast majority of them don't know or care about the facts.

If we are all that ignorant of the facts, what's the point of it? This brochure isn't about facts, it's a few statistics with an opinion added on.

It will be the same with the out campaign.

 

At the end of the day, people will agree with the opinions based on the figures, which match their own world view, and vote with their gut reaction.

I wonder sometimes if this government likes gambling with the opinions of the masses and sets odds on each scenario.
Or maybe they like the thrill.

I've not forgiven them yet for nearly losing us Scotland, as part of the U.K. 


Allowing a vote on something that can be damaging to the UK, where a good percentage don't really understand the ramifications of the choice ? 

What are they doing? Getting us to vote to destroy our country, out of ignorance? Haven't they got a duty of care, if most of us don't know enough about it to vote other than by gut reaction?

The government looks a bit scatty to me. They don't half do some scatty things.


Perhaps that's a good reason for staying in the EU?

 

[SusanDoris]

Susan, I'm going to find where you live, somehow get in, find your stick and then hide it.

You may have noticed we don't agree on this one, we owe it to the younger generation to vote against staying as a part of a "democratic"? Europe.

ippy

Huh!  ( I obtained tickets yesterday for the 13/5/16 head-to-head with Desmond Swayne and Vince Cable, intent on hekling as much as possible wherever necessary!

ETA Well said, JeremyP.

Rose: Could you explain why approx 50p per house could have been 'better spent' , compared with the cost of the huge uncertainty which will result from the out vote.

[Hope]

We didn't need relatively expensive brochures, a leaflet would have sufficed.

A single sheet, 3-fold, leaflet in glorious technicolour costs about a little under a penny a time at this level of production, Rose, whilst delivery probably costs double that per leaflet.  Unfortunately, that size of leaflet isn't going to tell us much; it would still need to be fairly multi-page - in order to be comprehensive enough to be worth producing. 

I suppose we are now going to get the government doing the scare tactic thingy they did with Scotland over the independance vote.

I thought the scare tactic thingy was what the SNP had used.

Plus the view already expressed by Hope that the government is the only group of people with enough info and brains to work out what's best for us.

Except that I only noted that the Government is the only group with the full financial info - I made no mention of whether or not any Government has ever had the brains to work out what is best for us.

As for the government being the only ones with the facts.............. I'm not convinced about that.

I'm only going by what opposition parties consistently claim - that they don't have the full picture.

[Bubbles]

Huh!  ( I obtained tickets yesterday for the 13/5/16 head-to-head with Desmond Swayne and Vince Cable, intent on hekling as much as possible wherever necessary!

ETA Well said, JeremyP.

Rose: Could you explain why approx 50p per house could have been 'better spent' , compared with the cost of the huge uncertainty which will result from the out vote.

Yes, if coming out of the EU is as big as a disaster as they claim, and only they have the full picture enough to make an informed choice , why are we voting on it?

It makes no sense to me. Democracy is fine, when it's an informed choice. This isn't going to be an informed choice.

Most people are disinterested in the EU, IMO. They are not going to be any more informed by June. Only more informed by different and opposing opinions.

We'll see how much interest it raises by how many people actually bother to vote.

50p could have been saved along with all the other costs involved in it.

I'm sure the NHS could have done with the money.

[Bubbles]

34p each, those brochures cost.

Fielding questions from MPs in the Commons, Mr Lidington said the leaflets, which work out at "34p per household", were a "reasonable expression" of the government's case for staying in the EU.
He said the government "has not only the right, but a duty to explain to the electorate that when faced with a decision of this gravity the reasons why the government has come to the recommendation that it has done".
He said the pamphlets were "entirely lawful", and added : "Special rules limiting all government publications and communications will apply in the last 28 days of the referendum campaign."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36013363

It's caused quite a stir

 

[Bubbles]

Here is a so called reality check from the BBC website answering the governments claims in the brochure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35990076

[Aruntraveller]

Allowing a vote on something that can be damaging to the UK, where a good percentage don't really understand the ramifications of the choice ? 

What are they doing? Getting us to vote to destroy our country, out of ignorance? Haven't they got a duty of care, if most of us don't know enough about it to vote other than by gut reaction?

The government looks a bit scatty to me. They don't half do some scatty things.

The reason the referendum was proposed was because Cameron was running scared of UKIP at the general election. He offered the referendum as a way of winning dissaffected voters back - gambling on the fact that we would vote to stay in come the referendum. This is a gamble that has huge ramifications for all of us - regardless of which way any of us intend to vote.

And you are quite right to point out the relative ignorance on the matter - witness the fact that some people (influenced by unbelievably bad press reporting) are unable to tell the difference between the ECHR & the EU.

To my mind it is possibly the single most irresponsible thing he has done, and that is at the top of a pretty long list.

[Stranger]

And you are quite right to point out the relative ignorance on the matter - witness the fact that some people (influenced by unbelievably bad press reporting) are unable to tell the difference between the ECHR & the EU.

Some people? I'd guess most people.
 
How many people have any idea at all how the EU is run and how it makes laws? The difference between the Council of the European Union, The European Council and Council of Europe, anybody?

[Sebastian Toe]

But what if the young want to stay in?  Of those under 25s I've spoken to on the issue, the figure is about 50/50.  Not sure what the national figue is (after all, my non-scientific 'poll' is South Eastern Welsh, as opposed to UK wide)

Under 25s lean towards staying by 64% to 23%

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/22/eu-referendum-state-public-opinion/

[ippy]

Huh!  ( I obtained tickets yesterday for the 13/5/16 head-to-head with Desmond Swayne and Vince Cable, intent on hekling as much as possible wherever necessary!

ETA Well said, JeremyP.

Rose: Could you explain why approx 50p per house could have been 'better spent' , compared with the cost of the huge uncertainty which will result from the out vote.

It would have better spent if it was set alight, anything would have been better than spending it on staying as a part of Europe, not being able to control our borders alone, is reason enough to stay away.

Can't you see who will be in control of us if we let go any further susan?

ippy

[Rhiannon]

Our economy is likely to collapse; 'democracy' is a luxury when we can't afford to put food on the table.

[Stranger]

It would have better spent if it was set alight, anything would have been better than spending it on staying as a part of Europe, not being able to control our borders alone, is reason enough to stay away.

Why are you so frightened of our fellow Europeans?

Can't you see who will be in control of us if we let go any further susan?

Err... us, that is, us Europeans.

[ippy]

Our economy is likely to collapse; 'democracy' is a luxury when we can't afford to put food on the table.

I note they've scared you Rhi, how come we survived quite well without them before we joined Europe? Nothing wrong with continuing to trade with Europe and they want to trade with us, why federation? we didn't vote for that when Harold oversaw the original referendum, we haven't had a say about this federation stuff, it all went ahead without Mr and Ms ordinary person having anything to do with it. 

Leaving the EU isn't parting company with them, we're all friends anyway and trading partners, I don't know of any reason why we shouldn't remain friends and trading partners and also try to revitalise trade with our commonwealth partners and any other area we can find.

ippy

[ippy]

Why are you so frightened of our fellow Europeans?

Err... us, that is, us Europeans.

If that's what you think fine you're entitled to your P O V, however I think you are mistaken, I must say I was overwhelmed by the concessions our PM managed to get from Brussels, maybe that's a sign of things to come?

SKoS we'll never agree on this one.

ippy

   

     

[Owlswing]

Haven't even got it yet. However, on this occasion I find myself in the unprecedented position of agreeing with a Tory government about something. Most of the press is rabidly anti EU, so people should be given the other point of view.

If you are worried about the cost to the taxpayer, sending it back without postage will cost us even more.

No, it won't - the Royal Mail is now a company owned by shareholders.

[Hope]

... and also try to revitalise trade with our commonwealth partners and any other area we can find.

ippy

Many of our 'commonwealth partners' already have trading agreements with places like India, Australia, NZ, Brazil, the States and canada, China, etc.  Muscling in on those agreements could be problematic.

[jakswan]

Our economy is likely to collapse; 'democracy' is a luxury when we can't afford to put food on the table.

If only the people who fought the second world war agreed, ausverkauft billig Rhi.

[ippy]

Many of our 'commonwealth partners' already have trading agreements with places like India, Australia, NZ, Brazil, the States and canada, China, etc.  Muscling in on those agreements could be problematic.

My brother's an Australian, go out of your house knock on each door one after the other up and down the road or street where you live and I wonder how many of your neighbours like me have close family in various commonwealth countries, almost to a person English speakers, surly I don't need to spell out all of the rest, unless you want to make a polnt of pretending you don't understand me.

Ippy

[Brownie]

I can't wait to get my brochure after reading all this, just to see what it is all about.  So I've been told, you have to register to be able to vote, something separate from being on the voters' register.  I wonder why.
Correction:  my informant got it wrong, you don't have to register again if already on the Register of Electors.  It did sound a bit Big Brotherish.

[Rhiannon]

If only the people who fought the second world war agreed, ausverkauft billig Rhi.

The point I was trying to make (badly) is that the idea that leaving the EU will deliver some kind of golden democracy seems pretty hollow, hence the quotation marks.

[jeremyp]

less than 50p each?

IMO taxpayers money could have been better spent.

Less than 20p a person to try to get them informed about the most important vote in their lives? I'd say it is damned well spent.