Is this a fair fight?

[Bubbles]

http://www.cagepotato.com/after-being-tkod-by-fallon-fox-tamikka-brents-says-transgender-fighters-in-mma-just-isnt-fair/


What do you think?

Should someone born male, who may still have the strength of a man be allowed to compete against women?

Is it taking equality to far?

It wouldn't be considered a fair fight or equality had a man beaten up a woman in a fight.

Who is to say the transgender fighter hasn't retained the male muscles?

I tend towards discriminating unless it can be shown that they don't have an unfair advantage.

I think it is one of the rare occaisions it may be right to discriminate.

How would you deal with this in sport?

[Bubbles]

This is an article from the British journal of sports medicine.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/695.full

Amazingly people do try and cheat by what they term " sex fraud".

 

And IMO that makes it even more complicated.

[Bubbles]

 

The initial accounts of men masquerading as women in order to compete for the laurels of victory date back to the early cold war period, an era when athletic achievement became a source of both personal and national pride, prestige, and reward. Although much of the available “evidence” is anecdotal and circumstantial, there is reason to suspect that such sex fraud may have been systematically perpetuated for political gain dating back to the 1936 Berlin Olympics.7 With opportunities for women to compete in the international sporting arena becoming more numerous, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) intervened in order to protect track and field from the reoccurrence of similar transgressions by requiring that the female participants in the 1966 European Track and Field Championships parade naked before a panel of female doctors in order to confirm their “femininity.” Although all 243 athletes who submitted to this private humiliation passed, six athletes from a single Eastern bloc delegation suddenly withdrew from the competition, precipitating considerable speculation and rumour mongering.8,9 Over the succeeding two years, verification of gender became a part of the pre-competition protocol for female track and field athletes, and in 1968 the IOC followed suit by requiring that all female athletes produce proof of their gender in order to be permitted to participate in the Mexico City Summer Olympic Games.8,10 Although the accepted methodology of sex testing would evolve over time, in one form or another such gender verification was performed before every subsequent Olympics, until the IOC finally suspended the practice before the Sydney Summer Games.7,11

 

I never knew that   

[Hope]

http://www.cagepotato.com/after-being-tkod-by-fallon-fox-tamikka-brents-says-transgender-fighters-in-mma-just-isnt-fair/


What do you think?

Should someone born male, who may still have the strength of a man be allowed to compete against women?

Rose, athletics, for instance, has been debating this and similar issues (such as when a woman has a higher than average level of testosterone in her system) for many years.  There have been cases where a woman's female-ness has been called into question as a result of this type of issue.  Not really sure that it has ever been resolved, let alone equibly

[Bubbles]

It's still a matter of controversy

Consider, for example, the following scenario: a transgender male to female athlete—that is, a male who has undergone surgical and hormonal gender reassignment to become a female—dominates a volleyball match to such an extent that other competitors believe it to be unfair that she has been permitted to compete. The athlete subsequently produces the appropriate documents indicating that she is indeed, legally, a female (and not simply a cross dresser or transvestite). The question therefore arises, is it advisable or fair to permit transsexual athletes to compete in sport? Furthermore, should a sports governing body, in the name of fair play, restrict the right of transsexual athletes to participate in the gender category by which society and the law accepts them as human beings?

In regard to the illustrative scenario (which was based on actual events), the FIVB rule is quite clear, stipulating that all international athletes must compete in the category of their birth sex. However, the IOC decided before the 2004 Athens Summer Games that athletes who had undergone sex reassignment surgery would be permitted to compete in all future Olympic Games, provided that they met certain criteria on duration of hormonal treatment or timing of surgery (table 1). Although no transsexual athletes were publicly acknowledged to have participated in the Athens Games, the debate continues as to who is right: sports federations, such as the FIVB, that restrict participation of transsexual athletes, or the IOC, which has adopted the more liberal policy allowing these athletes to compete.

This is written by a medical doctor I think, looking at the author.

[Bubbles]

Rose, athletics, for instance, has been debating this and similar issues (such as when a woman has a higher than average level of testosterone in her system) for many years.  There have been cases where a woman's female-ness has been called into question as a result of this type of issue.  Not really sure that it has ever been resolved, let alone equibly

Yes, I thought it a good subject for us to debate.

I'm not sure we've ever argued about this particular one.

[Bubbles]

Very physical contact sports like boxing, wrestling etc I'd say no, they shouldn't compete against born women.

I think it would have to be looked at from sport to individual sport.


Anyone care to argue differently?

 

[Bubbles]

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/10/695.full

Another snippet from the article I'm reading link above

The decision to categorically restrict male to female transsexual athletes from competing in a given sport as females rests on two critical assumptions. The first is that most people exposed to testosterone from puberty onward will develop physical and/or physiological attributes that contribute to a distinct performance advantage over most women. Although the performance boundaries between male and female athletes have narrowed in the past several decades, there are distinct gender differences that exist on average.4–6 The second assumption needed to justify restricting male to female transsexual participation in female events is that these attributes can withstand the hormonal manipulation of sex reassignment, thereby giving the male to female transsexual athlete an unfair competitive advantage. Certainly, there are some effects of testosterone that cannot be reversed, including (most notably) its effect on postpubertal height in men. Men are on average taller than women, with the pubertal growth spurt accounting for most of the gender difference. This gender discrepancy in height might itself be construed as offering an unfair performance advantage to male to female transsexual athletes who participate in sports for which height is thought to be an asset, such as volleyball, basketball, and netball.

[Brownie]

I think you are right Rose but at the end of the day, it is up to the competitors.  As long as they are adult and know all the risks, we can't stop them.

[Bubbles]

I think you are right Rose but at the end of the day, it is up to the competitors.  As long as they are adult and know all the risks, we can't stop them.

That's very true 

[ekim]

Rose, athletics, for instance, has been debating this and similar issues (such as when a woman has a higher than average level of testosterone in her system) for many years.  There have been cases where a woman's female-ness has been called into question as a result of this type of issue.  Not really sure that it has ever been resolved, let alone equibly

........like the case of Caster Semenya, the female 800 meters gold medalist.

[Harrowby Hall]

This had me thinking ...

I vaguely recalled some scandal in tennis.

Richard Raskind had his dangly bits chopped off and was transformed into Renee Richards who played professional tennis as a woman - and was accepted as a female tennis player. Renee Richards was among the top female tennis players in the USA.

[Sassy]

Rose,

We have women born with the strength of men.
At the end of the day trans gender doesn't mean a thing when it comes to strength.
Our sex does not really decide our strength.
But the weight should be equally matched when taking part in these competitions.


Our bodies are definitely different and could they be equally matched in the damage they could do to each other?


As a woman they have been changed and the same for a man. If a woman who becomes a man and fights are they really equal in strength?

It is a choice regardless of sex. If they choose to fight then they win or loose. But the sex change should not be an issue.
Believe me... being a woman or a man does not in itself make you completely weak.
The fairer sex have always been classed as the weaker sex. But in general some women can be stronger than men.

They decide to fight and they alone have to decide whether it is right for them with all that constructive surgery.
I would be more worried about damaging themselves during fighting.

[ekim]

Rose,


Our sex does not really decide our strength. ......

The fairer sex have always been classed as the weaker sex. But in general some women can be stronger than men.

I wonder how women would fare if there was no segregation in athletics, tennis, boxing, football etc. and they had to compete with men in unified sports.  I suspect that most would be eliminated early on in any top competition.