New Party leaders

[Udayana]

...
Frankly I don't see how this can go on realistically without a general election in the Autumn once (hopefully) new leaders of both Labour and the Tories are installed. Problem is that the fixed term parliament act (another legacy of Cameron that we will live to regret) makes it pretty well impossible for one to happen in practice.

May has already stated that she will rule out an early GE and will hold off triggering Article 50 until the end of the year, if she becomes leader/PM. Apparently some Conservative MPs are worried about losing their seats (not sure who to ).

[ProfessorDavey]

May has already stated that she will rule out an early GE and will hold off triggering Article 50 until the end of the year, if she becomes leader/PM. Apparently some Conservative MPs are worried about losing their seats (not sure who to ).

Which is, of course, shrewd politics as this stage, given that the current stage involves being in the top 2 in the vote of tory MPs to get onto the ballot paper for members.

But I'm not talking about tory internal politics but what is in the interests of the country. The past week has been unprecedented - by September we may well have new PM and new leader of the opposition. Problem is that neither will have a mandate to lead the country and this is particularly critical as the PM will need to take the decision whether (or not) to trigger article 50 and if so to then negotiate with the EU over leaving. Whoever becomes PM in September will not have the mandate of the UK electorate to do that.

[Udayana]

Of-course that is true, but unless an election is offered by the new PM as part of their pitch, I'm not sure that there will be sufficient pressure to force one even if it's patently undemocratic not to have one.
   

[ProfessorDavey]

Of-course that is true, but unless an election is offered by the new PM as part of their pitch, I'm not sure that there will be sufficient pressure to force one even if it's patently undemocratic not to have one.
 

Agree, but I guess what someone says at this stage (when trying to garner MP support) may be different at stage 2 (trying to win sufficient member support) or at the final stage, once PM.

[Sebastian Toe]

My preference would be Stephen Crabb, with May a close second and Fox and Gove a far distant =4th.

Who is your preference for 3rd? 

[Bubbles]

I thought the new primeminister was supposed to be selected from the leave campaigners?

That's what was said at one point by David Cameron.

I thought Ms May was a remain supporter.

[Bubbles]

She was part of the debate team for leave - some Brexiters said she was good - I disagree, I thought she was unconvincing, wooden and came across as if it was a bit of a game, rather than the most important decision of a generation.

Clearly she is vain enough to believe the (misplaced) hyperbole. Sufficiently to think she should go directly from being a junior minister who no-one has ever heard of to becoming PM.

As you can see I'm not impressed. She, of course, won't win.

She might.

She qualifies as a leave supporter and it is irrelevant if we don't know her, because we arn't voting.

As long as the voters know her and her track record.

[ProfessorDavey]

She might.

She qualifies as a leave supporter and it is irrelevant if we don't know her, because we arn't voting.

As long as the voters know her and her track record.

I doubt many Tory members would have had a clue who she was until a few weeks ago, and most still won't. Unless you actually watched the debates (and most didn't) you'd still be none the wiser. And even if you had she was very much 3rd billing on the Brexit side, after the main attraction (Boris) and the oddity (Stuart - a Labour Brexiter).

The problem with going with a Leave supporter for the Tories is that they will 'own' all the problems and difficulties that we are currently facing and will face in the coming months and years, including almost certainly a recession. A Remainer can rise above that - 'no my fault, but I'll try to fix it while fulfilling the will of the people'.

[Brownie]

Rose:  She qualifies as a leave supporter and it is irrelevant if we don't know her, because we arn't voting.


I agree with you about the 'irrelevant' bit, we can't do anything about the new PM/Tory leader, but I understand she changed her mind and became a Remain voter.  As did Baroness Warsi.

[Bubbles]

I doubt many Tory members would have had a clue who she was until a few weeks ago, and most still won't. Unless you actually watched the debates (and most didn't) you'd still be none the wiser. And even if you had she was very much 3rd billing on the Brexit side, after the main attraction (Boris) and the oddity (Stuart - a Labour Brexiter).

The problem with going with a Leave supporter for the Tories is that they will 'own' all the problems and difficulties that we are currently facing and will face in the coming months and years, including almost certainly a recession. A Remainer can rise above that - 'no my fault, but I'll try to fix it while fulfilling the will of the people'.

True.

[Hope]

Oh, of course, that's where I've heard of him before - thumbs down for Crab then 

You are suggesting that a Welsh person is unsuitable to be PM?

[Hope]

If that is true, he is the last person we want as PM!

So, you don't want a fellow Welshie to be PM?

[ProfessorDavey]

but I understand she changed her mind and became a Remain voter.  As did Baroness Warsi.

What Leadsom??! Switched from Leave to Remain?!? News to me.

[Brownie]

You are suggesting that a Welsh person is unsuitable to be PM?

Nobody on here thinks in stereotypes boyo, we all like leeks, sheep and Max Boyce if he's still alive, not to mention Brains SA.

[Udayana]

Rose:  She qualifies as a leave supporter and it is irrelevant if we don't know her, because we arn't voting.


I agree with you about the 'irrelevant' bit, we can't do anything about the new PM/Tory leader, but I understand she changed her mind and became a Remain voter.  As did Baroness Warsi.

This is about Andrea Leadsom ... no way is she for Remain.

[Brownie]

Oh bugger, I thought we were still on Teresa May.  My bad, never mind I'll go and have a lie down.

[Hope]

Not the case, except in a situation where a sitting PM stands down mid term.

So when Corbyn was elected leaded (by a few hundred thousand members and supporters) he became leader of the opposition. He would only become PM if he one a general election where everyone is entitled to vote.

That's the point, and the difference. And I'm not making a partisan party political point - what I am pointing out is that come September we will have a PM voted for by 150,000 people (actually the winning proportion of that) leading the UK and the UK government. Yet throughout the referendum debate we kept getting told that it was the EU that was undemocratic. Hmm.

How many of the electorate actually vote - in a General Election - for a national leader, and how many for a party.  I'd suggest very few.  Let's take the recent Welsh Elections as an example.  The valley in which the railway I volunteer for is staunchly Labour, but over the last 3 or 4 years, an increasing number of the population have been saying that Carwyn Jones and his Labour government has failed them badly - so, who do they vote for in the Assembly Election?  Labour.

[Hope]

Problem is that neither will have a mandate to lead the country and this is particularly critical as the PM will need to take the decision whether (or not) to trigger article 50 and if so to then negotiate with the EU over leaving. Whoever becomes PM in September will not have the mandate of the UK electorate to do that.

I believe, PD, that legally, only a party has a mandate to rule, not an individual.  There have been many occasions when both parties has changed their leader whilst in Government. 

[Hope]

Of-course that is true, but unless an election is offered by the new PM as part of their pitch, I'm not sure that there will be sufficient pressure to force one even if it's patently undemocratic not to have one.
 

How many times have replacement Government party leaders and PMs instantly called a GE?  Did Gordon Brown?  Did John Major?  Did Jim Callaghan?  That takes us back to 1976 - 40 years ago.

[Harrowby Hall]

How many of the electorate actually vote - in a General Election - for a national leader, and how many for a party. 

Constitutionally, we vote for the candidate on the ballot paper who we think will be the best representative for our constituency.

The convention is that the monarch sends for the leader of the party with the largest number of seats in the House of Commons and asks him or her to form an administration. Only on acceptance of that request do we have a prime minister.

[L.A.]

You are suggesting that a Welsh person is unsuitable to be PM?

Hi Hope, perish the though 

Basically:

"In 2013, Mr Crabb voted against extending marriage equality to same-sex couples. He has also been linked to an organisation which has advocated that homosexuality and bisexuality can be “cured”."

Rightly or wrongly it means that there will always be a large group of electors with a grudge against him just when we need a figure to unite the country.

[Bubbles]

My conservative MP is openly gay.

they are all so different in their stance on things.

Probably just as well, it makes it more balanced.

Too much of any one POV is probably a bad thing.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hi Hope, perish the though 

Basically:

"In 2013, Mr Crabb voted against extending marriage equality to same-sex couples. He has also been linked to an organisation which has advocated that homosexuality and bisexuality can be “cured”."

Rightly or wrongly it means that there will always be a large group of electors with a grudge against him just when we need a figure to unite the country.

Yeh, Brexitters.

[Bubbles]

IMO Ms May has the gravitas to carry off the role of PM. She has an air of authority.

My only concern is she has a tendancy to want to pass laws that supposedly stop crime/terrorism but restrict us further.

I don't know or seen enough about the other applicants to judge.

Boris Johnson who is out of the picture always makes me think of a " big schoolboy"  he didn't have the right image for a primeminister somehow.

The American link I put up elsewhere,  says it all.

I think Boris it likeable though.

[Bubbles]

Ms May

On 30 June 2016, May formally announced her candidacy for party leader to replace Prime Minister David Cameron who had resigned after the Brexit referendum. May emphasized the need for unity within the party regardless of positions about leaving the EU. "The campaign was fought ... and the public gave their verdict. There must be no attempts to remain inside the EU, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door and no second referendum. ... Brexit means Brexit," she said, adding that Article 50 (the formal notification of Britain's exit from the EU) should not be filed until the end of 2016. On the issue of immigration, she insisted that there was a need to regain more control of the numbers of people who come to Britain from Europe. Under questioning she agreed that it would not be possible totally to eliminate immigration to the UK.

May described herself as a candidate who will unify the party after a divisive referendum.[13][14]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_May

Also the wiki link shows how many roles she has held in parliament, which has to go in her favour.