Author Topic: New Party leaders  (Read 24660 times)

Hope

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #175 on: July 06, 2016, 07:57:20 AM »
That is because your particular approach to Christianity is distorting your ability to think clearly and is leading you into fallacious reasoning.
Yet most of my view has nothing to do with my faith nd a great deal to do with my reading of hundreds of pages of, predominantly, scientific material over the last 30+ years on the issue.  Your constant harping on about my "particular approach to Christianity" seems to forget that my "particular approach to Christianity" believes that there are (to quote a particular book's title) No Perfect People Allowed in the church, that homosexuals ought not to be vilified and reviled on the basis of their orientation (in the same way that no other human being should be vilified and reviled on the basis of their particular 'orientation', be that sexual or not).  Perhaps most importantly, I believe that we should love everyone - and here I'm not talking about an eros-type love - and that this kind of love does include discipline and correction.

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Since you have recently demonstrated on several occasions your utter ignorance of research methods I doubt that you can justify this comment - but have a go anyway.
OK, until the late 90s, most research into this particular aspect of sexuality was pretty negative towards homosexuality.  Some of the more famous pieces of research that were favourable, such as Kinsey, have been shown to be seriously flawed.  Over the next 8-10 years, research began to swing the other way, with people suggesting that it has a genetic issue  - something that was used very heavily during the early noughties debates in Parliament on the topic.   Towards the end of the noughties that was shown to be doubtful.  As a result, the majority of 'positive' research into the matter is probably no more than 10 to 15 years old, with a lot of that no more than 6-8 years old.  That isn't a corpus of long-term research.  As for research into the associated aspects of homosexuality - such as the fostering or adoption of children, much of that is necessarily short-term since, even in the States, the practice hasn't been in existence for much more than 20 - 25 years.  A full understanding of the impact of the way children are brought up can take that and more time.

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This is just spurious tu quoque.
No, it isn't spurious, in any way.  Bearing in mind that the discussion on this thread has always been about more than just the 'H' topic, and the passage I quoted was in general terms (as you point out at the top of your post), I was also making a more general point.  You chose to take it as a specific to the 'H' topic, whilst I was making a point that went beyond it.  I accept that I might have done better to have created a separate post for that particular point, but then my mind was on a number of things when I was posting (not least a day of 'death by powerpoint' in regard to the safe use, transport and disposal of pesticides and the equipment used to apply them - day 1 of a 4-day course in the Safe use of Pesticides which will hopefully result in my having 3 certificates in using pesticides - including herbicides - to permit me to wage war on the Japanese Knotweed that is rampant in a number of places in South Wales - not least the Garw Valley, where the heritage railway we are working to establish, is.)

Perhaps most important is the fact that it was one or more posters who don't like Stephen Crabb who initiated the inclusion of the 'H' topic into this thread.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #176 on: July 06, 2016, 10:36:17 AM »
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and that this kind of love does include discipline and correction.

Whatever turns you on sweetheart.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Aruntraveller

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #177 on: July 06, 2016, 10:43:52 AM »
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Yet most of my view has nothing to do with my faith nd a great deal to do with my reading of hundreds of pages of, predominantly, scientific material over the last 30+ years on the issue

Why - one has to question why?

You are obsessed and it is not healthy.

On the other hand you could just be making stuff up - in which case you are not obsessed, but you are bearing false witness.

'There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.' Proverbs. *

*You'll note that the usual abomination some are fond of quoting is missing from that list. I do wish there was a definitive list of abominations.  ::)
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Hope

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #178 on: July 06, 2016, 06:20:31 PM »
Why - one has to question why?
Because I have lived, worked and relaxed in contexts where the issue was often under discussion. As someone who studies the Bible quite closely, I often have discussions with other people, believers and not, as to what is an appropriate translation and/or interpretation of a variety of Biblical passages.  Homosexuality has been one such issue since the early 80's - though as one part of the larger issue of sexuality and gender as a whole.

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You are obsessed and it is not healthy.
Generally, I respond to others when they start a topic, or sub-thread, on the issue - as has happened in this particular case.

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'There are six things that the LORD strongly dislikes, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.' Proverbs. *
I'm glad that you know that much of the Bible   ;)

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*You'll note that the usual abomination some are fond of quoting is missing from that list. I do wish there was a definitive list of abominations.  ::)
A definitive list - such as some of those in the NT - certainly does include the 'usual abomination some are fond of quoting'
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Aruntraveller

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #179 on: July 07, 2016, 08:10:40 AM »
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Yet most of my view has nothing to do with my faith

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As someone who studies the Bible quite closely, I often have discussions with other people, believers and not, as to what is an appropriate translation and/or interpretation of a variety of Biblical passages.

You really need some conflict resolution on this matter.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

SusanDoris

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #180 on: July 07, 2016, 04:25:57 PM »
Anyone who is interested in who is going to be the new PM should read the wikipedia page on Andrea Leadsom.How she has any MPs supporting her raises questions over their judgement.
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floo

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #181 on: July 07, 2016, 05:00:38 PM »
So we are to have another woman PM in September now Gove has been eliminated. I hope it is May.

Nearly Sane

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #182 on: July 07, 2016, 05:00:54 PM »
Anyone who is interested in who is going to be the new PM should read the wikipedia page on Andrea Leadsom.How she has any MPs supporting her raises questions over their judgement.
The Wiki is a hatchet job. I have little time for her but what is currently there is written to embarrass her.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #183 on: July 07, 2016, 05:40:44 PM »
The Wiki is a hatchet job. I have little time for her but what is currently there is written to embarrass her.
Maybe but the suggestion of banning pessimists sounds like it could be followed up by a Happiness Patrol.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #184 on: July 07, 2016, 06:25:53 PM »
The Wiki is a hatchet job. I have little time for her but what is currently there is written to embarrass her.
I gathered that earlier this week there were edits to make it more favourable, emanating from her own constituency. So if it remains awful despite the doctoring that isn't good.

Nearly Sane

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #185 on: July 07, 2016, 06:50:01 PM »
I gathered that earlier this week there were edits to make it more favourable, emanating from her own constituency. So if it remains awful despite the doctoring that isn't good.
There look to have been a lot of hatchet job edits in the last couple of days. I am not sure why you think that is significant as to whether someone is capable of the job. No prospective PM would be free of such things.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #186 on: July 07, 2016, 07:11:56 PM »
There look to have been a lot of hatchet job edits in the last couple of days. I am not sure why you think that is significant as to whether someone is capable of the job. No prospective PM would be free of such things.
Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

Nearly Sane

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #187 on: July 07, 2016, 07:51:00 PM »
Sorry I don't understand what you mean.
Two things, 1 - that having people saying they were going to be 'correcting' it does not mean that others were not on continuing the hatchet job , and that a lot of the information added has been what has come out in the last couple of days.

And 2 - that people in this position will get people editing their wiki entry, I suspect looking at it that  the normal controls have not been put in place so it's a flame war. Such things do not tell you anything about whether she is capable of the job or not. It's a wiki page.

Nearly Sane

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #188 on: July 07, 2016, 08:05:02 PM »
Watching Leadsom being interviewed about the obvious inaccuracies on her CV, my only question is if that were exposed in a job  interview  whether you wait to the end and know you won't hire them, or cut short the interview and say it's not worth continuing.

SusanDoris

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #189 on: July 08, 2016, 06:47:18 AM »
I was listening to some of Question Time last night (on Five Live) and there was mention of 200,000 new members of the Labour Party, making a total of 600,000. Is this correct? And then the figure of 160,000 is quoted as being the number of Conservative Party members who can vote for Theresa May or that other woman with a dodgy CV and total lack of experience in dealing with international diplomacy. Why haven't we, i.e. the Conservative Party, got more members?!!! No, I'm not expecting an answer to that! :)
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Nearly Sane

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #190 on: July 08, 2016, 07:42:08 AM »
I was listening to some of Question Time last night (on Five Live) and there was mention of 200,000 new members of the Labour Party, making a total of 600,000. Is this correct? And then the figure of 160,000 is quoted as being the number of Conservative Party members who can vote for Theresa May or that other woman with a dodgy CV and total lack of experience in dealing with international diplomacy. Why haven't we, i.e. the Conservative Party, got more members?!!! No, I'm not expecting an answer to that! :)
Michael Crick said 128,000 on Channel 4 news, the 600,000 figure is probably correct. It is easier and much cheaper to join Labour with its £3 quid membership so that's one reason.


A

SusanDoris

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #191 on: July 08, 2016, 08:15:59 AM »
Michael Crick said 128,000 on Channel 4 news, the 600,000 figure is probably correct. It is easier and much cheaper to join Labour with its £3 quid membership so that's one reason.


A
Ah, yes, of course. Thank you.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #192 on: July 08, 2016, 08:19:03 AM »
Michael Crick said 128,000 on Channel 4 news, the 600,000 figure is probably correct. It is easier and much cheaper to join Labour with its £3 quid membership so that's one reason.


A
The £3 affiliates (supporters) aren't actually members, so I guess it depends on how they are counting - i.e. are they just counting proper fully paid up members, or a combination of those and the £3 supporters.

Nearly Sane

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #193 on: July 08, 2016, 08:32:50 AM »
The £3 affiliates (supporters) aren't actually members, so I guess it depends on how they are counting - i.e. are they just counting proper fully paid up members, or a combination of those and the £3 supporters.

You are, of course, correct. Given the numbers I am presuming, perhaps incorrectly, that it is the second. Also when numbers were given previously at the time of the leadership election, the affiliates were counted as part of the total.

Gonnagle

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #194 on: July 08, 2016, 08:35:41 AM »
Dear United Kingdom, ( United Kingdom, Gonnagle you are such a sarcastic bar steward )

Two runners left, one remain, one for exit, the remain candidate looks like the favourite, Cameron was for remain.

Better the devil you know :o Just an observation.

Gonnagle.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #195 on: July 08, 2016, 09:11:12 AM »
You are, of course, correct. Given the numbers I am presuming, perhaps incorrectly, that it is the second. Also when numbers were given previously at the time of the leadership election, the affiliates were counted as part of the total.
Typically the 3 different groups were reported separately in terms of their voting, although ultimately the weighting was purely one member one vote (member in this case being member, registered supporter or affiliated supporter).

Hence we know that Corbyn didn't (quite) receive the majority of member's votes, but received a majority of the votes of the other two groups.

floo

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #196 on: July 08, 2016, 09:28:38 AM »
Leadson gives me the creeps!

ProfessorDavey

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #197 on: July 08, 2016, 09:41:32 AM »
Leadson gives me the creeps!
Likewise.

Udayana

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #198 on: July 08, 2016, 09:48:35 AM »
 == charisma?
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Gonnagle

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Re: New Party leaders
« Reply #199 on: July 08, 2016, 09:51:38 AM »
Dear Floo and ProfDavey,

The Tory party gives me the creeps!!

Gonnagle.
I will now read posts very carefully and then using the two God given brains cells that I have reply as if I am talking to a two year old, yes that should suffice as a gentle reminder✝️✝️✝️❤️