Two British athletes, born as man, ...

[Hope]

In August, two British athletes will likely be the first “transgender” men to compete against women at the Olympic Games. We need your help to ensure fairness for female athletes.

What is your view on this?

http://bit.ly/29GhZqY

[Nearly Sane]

 Are you Citizen go? If not why no quotation marks?

[Aruntraveller]

Yes - what is this Citizengo bollocks?

All of a sudden I've started receiving e-mails asking me to sign petitions about Education policy in Scotland to do with LGBT and the aforementioned Rio transgender issues. Like I care about bloody Rio and like I'm going to sign them 

Anyway I've warned them, anymore of this and I'm sending Panty Bliss round to sort them out:

http://www.newnownext.com/irish-drag-queen-panti-bliss-delivers-poignant-speech-on-orlando-and-homophobia/07/2016/

There are bigger problems in the world than a few transgendered athletes who may have an advantage. Or then again maybe not, because they could be facing another athlete who is on massive doses of performance enhancing drugs. Drugs which I understand won't be sniffed out by the Rio authorities because they've only got one Bunsen burner and test tube between them.

[Leonard James]

In August, two British athletes will likely be the first “transgender” men to compete against women at the Olympic Games. We need your help to ensure fairness for female athletes.

What is your view on this?

http://bit.ly/29GhZqY

A difficult one, and I confess I have no idea how to solve it.

Clearly genetically male bodies have certain advantages over female ones when it comes to strength and endurance, and some way must be found to compensate that. Either a separate category for them or a handicap of some kind.

The simple truth is that competition of this sort is silly. Considering somebody 'superior' to others because they are genetically better adapted for any given activity is short-sighted and stupid. And that holds even among one sexual group.

[Hope]

Are you Citizen go? If not why no quotation marks?

Partly because I knew that the link I gave would show that the passage was a quote, NS.  And partly because I was in a hurry and forgot the punctuation.

[Hope]

Yes - what is this Citizengo bollocks?

All of a sudden I've started receiving e-mails asking me to sign petitions about Education policy in Scotland to do with LGBT and the aforementioned Rio transgender issues. Like I care about bloody Rio and like I'm going to sign them 

...

There are bigger problems in the world than a few transgendered athletes who may have an advantage. Or then again maybe not, because they could be facing another athlete who is on massive doses of performance enhancing drugs. Drugs which I understand won't be sniffed out by the Rio authorities because they've only got one Bunsen burner and test tube between them.

Sorry, Trent, I could mention several topics that are common discussion material here that would fit the thinking behind that last paragraph.  Just because you aren't interested, it doesn't mean that others aren't. Such discussions can also trigger and get each of us thinking about other aspects of injustice.  Simply concentrating on the 'big' issues hasn't always proved to be the best - perhaps even most successful - approach.

[splashscuba]

In August, two British athletes will likely be the first “transgender” men to compete against women at the Olympic Games. We need your help to ensure fairness for female athletes.

What is your view on this?

http://bit.ly/29GhZqY

I'm suspicious of their motives. I've had a look at their principles:
http://www.citizengo.org/en/ideology-citizengo-foundation


A right to one’s life and its preservation, from the moment of conception to its natural end.
A right to bodily integrity, safety and health.
A right for the individual human being, honor and reputation included, to be respected.
A right to think, act or refrain from certain actions, following the dictates of one’s own conscience.
A right to freedom of education.
A right to the freedom of information.
A right to assemble and join associations.
A right to religious freedom and to honor God both privately and publically, individually and collectively, according to one’s own conscience.
A right to marriage, understood as the union between one man and one woman, and to the education of one’s children.
A right to work, to economic initiative, and to the ownership of private property.
A right to an active participation in public life and to legal protection by the State.

While some seem admirable, some are less so.

[splashscuba]

Also been looking at their campaigns.

There's a worrying trend that implies (my opinion) that they are:

Pro life (anti abortion)
anti LGBT
Anti same sex marriage
Anti adoption for same sex couples
Religiously motivated (Christian only ?)

[Hope]

I'm suspicious of their motives. I've had a look at their principles:
...
While some seem admirable, some are less so.

I am linked to a variety of such groups - Avaaz, 38 Degrees and CitizenGo being the main ones.   With all of them, I have signed certain petitions and written letters explaining why I can't sign others.  Interestingly, I have had greater interaction with CitizenGo than either of the other two.

Its a bit like the political parties I've supported over the years.  At no time have I agreed with 100% of the policies and manifesto pledges that the parties have had.  Currently, the Green Party is the party whose policies most closely resemble my views, but that isn't to say that I agree with or would shout slogans from the rooftops for everything they stand for.

[Brownie]

I don't have any strong views about this.  I'd just say each athlete must be assessed on an individual basis.  There are some women who are already as powerful as men, some of the Russians I've seen at the Olympics for example.  Many women tennis players are far more powerful than others;  Martina was extremely powerful and the Williams sisters even more so.

So, just as in boxing a featherweight wouldn't be pitted against a heavyweight, the "new girls" should be in a category with those of similar weight and strength.

Also what splashcuba said.

I understand what Trent is saying about getting a load of unwanted emails after opening a link or signing a petition.  It is a real pain, something I try to avoid as far as possible.  I've only ever signed one online petition, would be reluctant to do it again.  Still I get some really odd emails, I just block them.

[trippymonkey]

IMO If the 2 men to women are STILL built like brick toilet walls then that's, as far as I feel, is not fair.
Men are generally bigger built than so many, not ALL BTW, women so they'd have to be looked at as far as their physiques are concerned.

Transgendered men to women are not just men with boobs & 'no cellar' downstairs. There's more to it than that.

And, YES, I know in sport there are SOME women who look like men in drag but that's another story ?!!?!? Choice is not the same as being born as....

Nick

[Aruntraveller]

The Olympics is screwed up - from the very top.

To worry about a couple of transgendered athletes is akin to somebody with terminal cancer worrying about an ingrowing toenail. It might be a distraction for a short time - but it is not addressing the real problem.

[trippymonkey]

Could you please explain?

[Aruntraveller]

Doping.

Huge problem that every one is sticking their fingers in their ears over and singing 'la,la,la'.

Prediction about Rio - major doping scandals uncovered over the next few years (testing facilities in Rio are woeful - so nothing will be revealed immediately) resulting in no meaningful medals at all. It's a fiasco in the making.

Any real achievements will be undermined by the suspicion that there is something not quite right. He ran so much faster than he ever did before. She looks much more manly than before etc, etc.

It's a freak show.

[splashscuba]

IMO If the 2 men to women are STILL built like brick toilet walls then that's, as far as I feel, is not fair.
Men are generally bigger built than so many, not ALL BTW, women so they'd have to be looked at as far as their physiques are concerned.

Transgendered men to women are not just men with boobs & 'no cellar' downstairs. There's more to it than that.

And, YES, I know in sport there are SOME women who look like men in drag but that's another story ?!!?!? Choice is not the same as being born as....

Nick

So if naturally born women are built like brick toilets, should they be banned from women's competitions?

[trippymonkey]

Please reread my post.

[Steve H]

A difficult one, and I confess I have no idea how to solve it.

Clearly genetically male bodies have certain advantages over female ones when it comes to strength and endurance...

On a small point of fact, strength yes, endurance no.  Men are generally stronger and faster than women, but women generally have more stamina, and can keep going for longer.  Men are faster than women in foot-races up to marathon length, but in very long-distance races, where endurance counts for more than speed, women have the advantage.

[Sebastian Toe]

On a small point of fact, strength yes, endurance no.  Men are generally stronger and faster than women, but women generally have more stamina, and can keep going for longer.  Men are faster than women in foot-races up to marathon length, but in very long-distance races, where endurance counts for more than speed, women have the advantage.

The records for ultra running seem to suggest differently.  Unless by very long you mean more than 100 miles or 48 hours?