Fewer plastic bags.

[Free Willy]

You can vote to **** the economy up but woe betide you if you buy a plastic bag.

[floo]

Everyone should bring their own bags, we have been doing it here in Wales for a few years, NO PROBLEM!

[Hope]

You can vote to **** the economy up but woe betide you if you buy a plastic bag.

Vlad, it's got more to do with woe betide the condition of the oceans if you buy a plastic bag - especially a one-use bag.  Apparently, plastic microfibres are being found in pretty well every sample of water taken from the oceans for testing - whatever the test might be for.

[floo]

So much needless packaging is used these days to wrap parcels, it has got ridiculous. There should be a crack down on that too.

[Bubbles]

So much needless packaging is used these days to wrap parcels, it has got ridiculous. There should be a crack down on that too.

Yes I've been puzzled by some of the enormous packages I have received sometimes, when everything is unwrapped I realise it is indeed the original small item I ordered.

Sometimes the item isn't even fragile 

At least if it was, there is a reason.

[Brownie]

I hate that hard polystyrene stuff that crumbles into bits if you break it - and those things made of polystyrne that look like prawn crackers and fly out of the box as soon as you open it!  However, apparently, they are all being discontinued - as is bubble wrap which I do like, keep and re-use.

Plastic bags don't bother me, they are useful and they can be recycled.  We don't get many of them nowadays but Ocado deliver stuff in carrier bags which they will take back and give credit for (they are not expensive anyway), next time they deliver.  They will also take any other carrier bags from elsewhere that you might have.  The Ocado bags are quite big and fairly strong.

I can put plastic carrier bags in my recycling bin which I do if they are torn, my council recycles them - as it does plastic drinking cups which we discussed recently.

Yogurt pots aren't recyclable, they have to go in landfill sites and there must be a lot of them.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

Vlad, it's got more to do with woe betide the condition of the oceans if you buy a plastic bag - especially a one-use bag.  Apparently, plastic microfibres are being found in pretty well every sample of water taken from the oceans for testing - whatever the test might be for.

I doubt that Vlad ( in his own way ) is alluding to environment issues but plastic bags are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to polluting our oceans.

http://www.thefactsabout.co.uk/plastic-microbeads/news/99/313/

http://tinyurl.com/zn67pgk

I actually thought that products using these micro beads had been banned but it looks like it is still an ongoing issue.

And this ties in nicely with the other thread regarding disposable coffee cups, we are not only raping the planets resources but at the same time destroying it in our push for greed and profit.

Gonnagle.

[Brownie]

I agree plastic bags are just the tip of the iceberg, Gonners.

Some of the things mentioned are easily remedied.  We take shopping bags with us when we go to the supermarket, most do nowadays anyway.

The coffee shops can serve the coffee in china cups or mugs.   People supply their own for takeaways - my old man has a couple of insulated, lidded coffee mugs that he was given by someone (they have adverts on them).  In Waitrose, where a cup of coffee is free, those cups are on sale right where the coffee machines are which encourages customers to buy them for their free coffee, and use them again and again.

Starbucks are apparently "leading the way" in providing recyclable disposable cups.  I don't know how far they've got but it's a start.

However there is a lot more to polluting our planet than a few disposable goods and that is a real concern.

[floo]

But there aren't just a 'few' disposable goods, the Western world awash with them.

[L.A.]

The lady that was interviewed on the news got a bit evasive when someone pointed-out that the bags that you pay for contain a lot more of that nasty old plastic than the free ones did.

It's a fiasco, but I suppose it gives some of these middle-class do-gooders an nice warm feeling inside, so it must make sense 

[Brownie]

That is certainly true for the Sainsbury's ones.  They quite thick and hardy.   Co-op, Morrisons and the others are flimsy and recyclable.

I don't know what middle-class do-gooding has to do with it.   Everyone shops.
 
As floo says, we are awash with disposble goods.  There's so much more to all this than bags and cups.

[Hope]

I hate that hard polystyrene stuff that crumbles into bits if you break it - and those things made of polystyrne that look like prawn crackers and fly out of the box as soon as you open it!  However, apparently, they are all being discontinued - as is bubble wrap which I do like, keep and re-use.

The prawn cracker-like things are being made out of corn starch very often now.  At least they biodegrade pretty quickly.

Plastic bags don't bother me, they are useful and they can be recycled.  We don't get many of them nowadays but Ocado deliver stuff in carrier bags which they will take back and give credit for (they are not expensive anyway), next time they deliver.  They will also take any other carrier bags from elsewhere that you might have.  The Ocado bags are quite big and fairly strong.

I think the ones that people are most worried about are the extremely thin one-use bags that supermarkets have given out for so long.

I can put plastic carrier bags in my recycling bin which I do if they are torn, my council recycles them ...

If they are the very thin ones mentioned above, your local council won't recycle them, as no recycliung company recycles them.

... as it does plastic drinking cups which we discussed recently.

Not sure when we discussed plastic drinking cups - seem to remember we discussed those pseudo-paper cus that many coffee shops provide takouts in - paper that is somehow combined with plastic, making the two elements almost inseparable - with only two companies in the UK having the ability and facilities to do so.

Yogurt pots aren't recyclable, they have to go in landfill sites and there must be a lot of them.

Which yogurt pots?  The plastic Muller Corner pots and similar ones, or the pseudo-card ones?

[Hope]

I actually thought that products using these micro beads had been banned but it looks like it is still an ongoing issue.

I believe that the US Government did pass a bill banning them, recently; but nothing this side of the pond so far as far as I'm aware.  Avaaz or 360 Degrees or one of those campaigning groups was running a campaign on both microbeads and microfibres recently.

And this ties in nicely with the other thread regarding disposable coffee cups, we are not only raping the planets resources but at the same time destroying it in our push for greed and profit.

Couldn't agree more.  Whilst it's been going on for centuries in one way or another, the fact that we now have the knowledge about how to reduce and even stop it, I feel that society is ever more guilty of abuse of various forms when it makes little or no effort to do so.

[Hope]

The lady that was interviewed on the news got a bit evasive when someone pointed-out that the bags that you pay for contain a lot more of that nasty old plastic than the free ones did.

It's a fiasco, but I suppose it gives some of these middle-class do-gooders an nice warm feeling inside, so it must make sense 

LA, the issue is that - usually, the paid-for bags get reused several times and can be recycled; the thin 'free' ones tend to break very easily and are rarely reused other than as liners for kitchen rubbish bins and similar roles.

[L.A.]

LA, the issue is that - usually, the paid-for bags get reused several times and can be recycled; the thin 'free' ones tend to break very easily and are rarely reused other than as liners for kitchen rubbish bins and similar roles.

The issue is surely:

what is the best way to prevent waste of a potentially valuable resource and prevent it from becoming a source of pollution?

It strikes me that the Green movement start with an 'Answer' then try and make it fit the problem.

I still believe that the total amount of plastic being disposed of is actually greater  since this stupid law was introduced, because although less bags are being used, they are much thicker. An 80% reduction sounds really impressive. If correct that would mean there were only 1/5 the number of bags - but if the new bags are 6 times the weight of the old (as my tests indicated), that would mean an increase of 20% in the amount of plastic.

Plastic bags are specifically banned from the recycle bit, so unless you want the Council Gestapo putting the thumb-screws on you, you will need to get rid of them in the non-recycle bin.

What is more, since you never seem to have enough plastic bags to use as bin-liners any more, it is now necessary to buy them!

[Hope]

The issue is surely:

what is the best way to prevent waste of a potentially valuable resource and prevent it from becoming a source of pollution?

It strikes me that the Green movement start with an 'Answer' then try and make it fit the problem.

Whereas my experience of the Green Movement is that they start with a problem and come up with a variety of solutions.  They then spend some time deciding which of the varied solutions they've come up with is the most effective.

I still believe that the total amount of plastic being disposed of is actually greater  since this stupid law was introduced, because although less bags are being used, they are much thicker. An 80% reduction sounds really impressive. If correct that would mean there were only 1/5 the number of bags - but if the new bags are 6 times the weight of the old (as my tests indicated), that would mean an increase of 20% in the amount of plastic.

Plastic bags are specifically banned from the recycle bit, so unless you want the Council Gestapo putting the thumb-screws on you, you will need to get rid of them in the non-recycle bin.

Most supermarkets continue to replace heavily-used/damaged 'Bags for Life' as they used to call them, and from what I have been informed are able to recycle them expressly because they are a heavier-grade of plastic.  Not sure of other local authorities, but I am able to put such plastic bags in with our plastic recycling.

What is more, since you never seem to have enough plastic bags to use as bin-liners any more, it is now necessary to buy them!

Is there any reason why we shouldn't have to pay for stuff we use?  I've even seen biodegradable bin-liners that aren't for use in kitchen-waste caddies.

[Spud]

The attitude towards recycling at the two sites I work at are pretty awful. I find, despite the publicity, the 5p charge and the better quality of the carrier bags, people still use them once then throw them in the bin. They also throw mountains of other stuff that's recyclable into public bins. Goodness knows what they chuck out at home. I can be pretty lazy though sometimes.

[Brownie]

Hope, I can assure you my council does recycle the thin plastic bags and the type of plasticaed coffee cup we discussed.  They also recycle juice cartons, wax covered ones like Tropicana.  I know not all councils do that but they are listed for mine.  Just up the road to me you walk into another borough.  There they have little bins for paper and cardboard only.

I've seen that some supermarkets have a sort of large, covered skip, for recycling carrier bags.  Of course it's up to the shoppers to make sure they take their bags there.

The yogurt pots I am talking about are those made of the stuff the Muller corner yogurts come in and they aren't recyclable.

Spud, you see it all first hand.  People often can't be bothered to sort out their rubbish.  However I will admit to being a bit obsessive about it, always was, even when I was at work where we had a bin for paper and cardboard.

[L.A.]

Whereas my experience of the Green Movement is that they start with a problem and come up with a variety of solutions.  They then spend some time deciding which of the varied solutions they've come up with is the most effective.

I consider that they have come-up with a very poor solution for the reasons I have stated.

Most supermarkets continue to replace heavily-used/damaged 'Bags for Life' as they used to call them, and from what I have been informed are able to recycle them expressly because they are a heavier-grade of plastic.  Not sure of other local authorities, but I am able to put such plastic bags in with our plastic recycling.

The last two areas I have lived in specifically ban plastic bags from recycle bins.

Is there any reason why we shouldn't have to pay for stuff we use?  I've even seen biodegradable bin-liners that aren't for use in kitchen-waste caddies.

Yes, biodegradable makes perfect sense - so why aren't they pushing for greater use of biodegradable bags and packaging instead of heavy duty bags that will likely end-up in landfill?

[Hope]

The last two areas I have lived in specifically ban plastic bags from recycle bins.

Unfortunately, as with so many other iussues, there is little joined-up thinking or collaboration between neighbouring authorities - sometimes even within authorities.

Yes, biodegradable makes perfect sense - so why aren't they pushing for greater use of biodegradable bags and packaging instead of heavy duty bags that will likely end-up in landfill?

I understand that they have been but no-one has yet produced a biodegradable bag of heavy enough 'calibre' (yes, I know that's the wrong word) to cope with things like tins and 2l and 4l bottles of milk!!

[Sriram]

We have jute and cloth bags that can take fairly heavy stuff. In mall food courts and most 'Stand and Eat' eateries people use disposable dried areca  leaves shaped into plates and wooden spoons  made from waste wood. Plastic use in such places is being reduced.

Water,cool drink bottles and food packaging are a problem. They form the maximum plastic waste. 

[Harrowby Hall]

The yogurt pots I am talking about are those made of the stuff the Muller corner yogurts come in and they aren't recyclable.

Do the yogurt pots have an embossed triangular design with a digit in the centre? The digit indicates the material from which the container has been made. It is then easy to check the recycling capabilities of that particular substance. The local council website may list the substances it is able to recycle.

One thing that you should never do when recycling plastic bottles is to screw the tops on when throwing the bottles away. The tops are made from different polymers. Always jettison bottle and top separately.

[Nearly Sane]

The issue is surely:

what is the best way to prevent waste of a potentially valuable resource and prevent it from becoming a source of pollution?

It strikes me that the Green movement start with an 'Answer' then try and make it fit the problem.

I still believe that the total amount of plastic being disposed of is actually greater  since this stupid law was introduced, because although less bags are being used, they are much thicker. An 80% reduction sounds really impressive. If correct that would mean there were only 1/5 the number of bags - but if the new bags are 6 times the weight of the old (as my tests indicated), that would mean an increase of 20% in the amount of plastic.

Plastic bags are specifically banned from the recycle bit, so unless you want the Council Gestapo putting the thumb-screws on you, you will need to get rid of them in the non-recycle bin.

What is more, since you never seem to have enough plastic bags to use as bin-liners any more, it is now necessary to buy them!

How right L A was!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50579077

And yes, I did look specifically for a topic to recycle.

[Roses]

In our area the green food bags are compositable. All other recyclable items are emptied into the recycling lorry from the blue or white reusable bags we put them in.

[jeremyp]

How right L A was!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50579077

And yes, I did look specifically for a topic to recycle.

I heard on the radio that a bag for life (it wasn't specified exactly what kind) has to be reused 47 times before you get a net benefit.

In retrospect, I think it would have been better to mandate that disposable bags be biodegradable e.g. make them out of paper. Or, rather than the "bag tax" going to charity, mandate that it go into recycling research.