Meanwhile in news not about Brexit...

[Nearly Sane]

A humanitarian crisis in the NHS

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38538637

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vote labour.

[Nearly Sane]

Vote labour.

Is there an election? What are their actual policies?

[Walter]

Vote labour.

its just a word , a concept, not an actual thing or group of like minded people, in actuality its meaningless.

[Brownie]

Labour as opposed to Labour.
Must say, things improved dramatically in the NHS after 1997;  I remember it well.  It was a great relief after the NHS basically being run down for about ten years.
Now we are going back to square one.

[Sassy]

A humanitarian crisis in the NHS

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38538637

What do you expect the closure of so many hospitals and the A&E shutting has put millions of our people at risk. All part of entering the EU to stop them taking advantage of the services and make it private.
It is all about money making... THINK! What happens when just a few hospitals remain.
First come first served. We did not have enough before now we have less hospitals and further for people to travel to get medical help, HOW many lives will that cost?

The mess we will have will not be caused by any Brexit but the stupidity of a Government who treated our people like cattle and a number, who would allow a rule which demobbed our monarchy and our independance as the Greatest Nation the world has ever known.
You see I am under no illusion that if God had not used our nation we would be nowhere.
Israel was Gods chosen Nation and that has not changed. But I believe our nation greatly blessed because it was used by God to save Israel and the mass murder which Hitler enforced and others in the past.

As a Christian Country we cannot go against the ways of God and hope to survive.
We cannot join a union which would use it's power against the world.
Really power is born out of selfless love for ourselves and each other.
We want a world rid of starvation, sickness and disease and we can only do that when we change as individuals and care about what really matters. God loves us and gave us our freedom and built us into the Country we are today. He has given us a sovereign who has dedicated her life to God and the welfare of this Country. I am not one for throwing that in the bin no matter how much people might dislike me for it, because they cannot grasp the importance of us NOT being in the EU. It will become clearer in time however. But I know God has worked this for our good as a nation though we all do not see that right now.

[Harrowby Hall]

Sassy -

Does Matron know that you are at the keyboard again?

Why not wait until your medication has taken effect before starting to type? Your very first sentence is incomprehensible.

What do you expect the closure of so many hospitals and the A&E shutting has put millions of our people at risk. Is it question? Are there words missing? It is incoherent. You then follow it with: All part of entering the EU to stop them taking advantage of the services and make it private. Who is "them"? And how does "entering the EU" stop "them" from doing ... anything?

If I knew what you are trying to say, I might devote some time to reading this, but it is incoherent. Could you please rewrite it in English?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

its just a word , a concept, not an actual thing or group of like minded people, in actuality its meaningless.

Then the same is true for Conservative and UKIP.

[Walter]

Then the same is true for Conservative and UKIP.

I don't disagree.

[Aruntraveller]

Sass. You really need to study our history to undetstand why we became a powerful nation. Clue: it has very little to do with Christianity and a lot more to do with exploiting other nations.

As to your hysteria over the EU and the NHS get a fucking grip woman. Look at the amount invested in health per head of the population here and compare it to France, or the  Netherlamds, or Germany. You"ll soon work out the real reason. Or in your case probably not. But the equation is really very simple....less money = deteriorating service.

[Hope]

Vote labour.

And wreck the economy all over again.

[Hope]

Labour as opposed to Labour.
Must say, things improved dramatically in the NHS after 1997;  I remember it well.  It was a great relief after the NHS basically being run down for about ten years.
Now we are going back to square one.

That is interesting, Brownie.  I know medics who worked in the NHS until 1996, went abroad with an organisation similar to Medicins Sans Frontieres, and returned in 2007.  They found it hard to believe that the NHS could have gone from bad to worse to the extent it had in that time.  That isn't to say that they are impressed by the current condition.

[Brownie]

I worked in NHS hospitals for many years, Hope, and can only speak from my own experience. 

Also provision of care and rehabilitation in the home for the sick, largely free regardless of financial circumstances, that improved dramatically after the return of Labour.

[Hope]

What do you expect the closure of so many hospitals and the A&E shutting has put millions of our people at risk. All part of entering the EU to stop them taking advantage of the services and make it private.

The problem isn't the EU, Sass; rather it is the ever-growing aging population, the aging stock of hospitals and ever-growing improvements in medical technology (and its growing cost), etc.
It is all about money making... THINK! What happens when just a few hospitals remain.

First come first served. We did not have enough before now we have less hospitals and further for people to travel to get medical help, HOW many lives will that cost?

Part of the problem has been the shortage of specialist staff for all the various hospitals that had sprung up, which is why it was felt thatthere ought to be fewer but potentially larger specialist centres.

The mess we will have will not be caused by any Brexit but the stupidity of a Government who treated our people like cattle and a number, who would allow a rule which demobbed our monarchy and our independance as the Greatest Nation the world has ever known.

I agree, both Labour and Tory parties have failed us in a whole host of areas.

[Hope]

I worked in NHS hospitals for many years, Hope, and can only speak from my own experience. 

Also provision of care and rehabilitation in the home for the sick, largely free regardless of financial circumstances, that improved dramatically after the return of Labour.

I think the main problem is the lack of co-ordination between the Health and Social Service Departments of  numerous Governments of the past 40 years.

[Anchorman]

The NHS is not a UK issuee anyway, but (thankfully) devolved. There has, in actuall fact, been NO unified NHS in the UK since its inception in 1947, the NHS in Scotland, Northern Ireland, and, to some extent, Wales being administered by Secretaries of state till devolution in 1999.

[Walter]

I think the main problem is the lack of co-ordination between the Health and Social Service Departments of  numerous Governments of the past 40 years.

chuffin hell Hope ,what a loss to the country you have been . You should have been a government advisor.

[Hope]

chuffin hell Hope ,what a loss to the country you have been . You should have been a government advisor.

Rats, you've let the cat out of the bag.   

[Jack Knave]

Labour as opposed to Labour.
Must say, things improved dramatically in the NHS after 1997;  I remember it well.  It was a great relief after the NHS basically being run down for about ten years.
Now we are going back to square one.

The Tories ruin the NHS and Labour trash the economy and the people rock between the two as if on a boat in a very rough sea, vomiting over the side constantly. Yeah, great, what a choice. Time for a change!

[Walter]

The Tories ruin the NHS and Labour trash the economy and the people rock between the two as if on a boat in a very rough sea, vomiting over the side constantly. Yeah, great, what a choice. Time for  change!

well I've got a pocket full of shrapnel to start you off.

[Hope]

Whilst not exactly in line with the thread title, how much do folk feel that TM has to concentrate on issues beyond Brexit compared to the time she does spend on Brexit.  Should it be 50/50; 60/40; 40/60; ...

[john]

Just saying cos I am interested to know what the intelligent posters here think.

Why is the NHS a sacred cow? I seem to remember that we have some  of the worst cancer recovery rates in the western world and that countries which score better than us do not have an equivalent service.

Is it time to stop throwing good money at the NHS, which doesn't seem to be working too well, and rethink the whole idea?

[Aruntraveller]

Just saying cos I am interested to know what the intelligent posters here think.

Why is the NHS a sacred cow? I seem to remember that we have some  of the worst cancer recovery rates in the western world and that countries which score better than us do not have an equivalent service.

Is it time to stop throwing good money at the NHS, which doesn't seem to be working too well, and rethink the whole idea?

WE do have lower cancer survival rates - but we have higher survival rates on Cardiac arrests so looking at single issues in isolation is not useful. If you look at every analysis done over the last decade in terms of performance and value for money (that is how much we invest against the outcomes achieved) the NHS system scores very highly, and in some analyses comes out top.

The issue is not merely the system used be it private or Nationalised or a mixture. It is how much any given country is willing to invest in health. We, in the UK, have in the Western world one of the lower per capita spends on health and yet achieve better outcomes than most. Just imagine what we could do if we invested what the French or Australians invest per capita.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

PS I meant to add that although the USA spends a huge amount on healthcare (largely private) it has some of the least good outcomes in the Western world and indeed has a lower life expectancy than the UK - although there will be other factors at work here than just the healthcare system. So I do not think that private medicine is necessarily the  magic bullet that some think it is, that will solve all our problems.

[jakswan]

Just saying cos I am interested to know what the intelligent posters here think.

Why is the NHS a sacred cow? I seem to remember that we have some  of the worst cancer recovery rates in the western world and that countries which score better than us do not have an equivalent service.

Is it time to stop throwing good money at the NHS, which doesn't seem to be working too well, and rethink the whole idea?

We don't spend enough on it:-

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/health-care-spending-compared

I think it should be a subsidised service unless you have a chronic condition. Doctors appointment c. £10, A&E £50, etc.I know the left will go hysterical over "privatisation"  but last I checked 40% of the care is delivered by the private sector now.

[Nearly Sane]

We don't spend enough on it:-

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/health-care-spending-compared

I think it should be a subsidised service unless you have a chronic condition. Doctors appointment c. £10, A&E £50, etc.I know the left will go hysterical over "privatisation"  but last I checked 40% of the care is delivered by the private sector now.

Off the amount spent on private health care according to your link? Are you sure?

And you want a doctor in A&E to refuse to treat someone in pain till they cough up more money then they have? Oh and charging at the point if delivery in this way isn't privatisation.