Author Topic: Magic  (Read 1304 times)

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Magic
« on: April 13, 2017, 02:41:05 PM »
Hi everyone,

Every once in a while I post some 'street' magic event.  Here is one performed on the Ellen TV show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_xhSQGKxO4

You'll like it.

Cheers.

Sriram

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27219
Re: Magic
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 03:01:49 PM »
Ah, yes, I saw this, it's a lovely use of technology and legerdemain. Best magician I have seen live is Jerry Sadowitz. And he is scabrously funny

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 03:19:22 PM »


Here is another of this guy Dynamo walking on the Thames...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GMqigTnKFs

Good one.

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 10:36:50 AM »


Maybe Jesus did the same thing...do you think?!

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27219
Re: Magic
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 10:48:35 AM »

Maybe Jesus did the same thing...do you think?!

No, not really, much as I doubt any miracles of Jesus, i don't think they are there to be conjuring tricks. I am of the opinion that the miracles, apart from the resurrection, get in the way of any message in the Gospels, but they aren't there to show Jesus as a street magician. 

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 02:04:41 PM »
No, not really, much as I doubt any miracles of Jesus, i don't think they are there to be conjuring tricks. I am of the opinion that the miracles, apart from the resurrection, get in the way of any message in the Gospels, but they aren't there to show Jesus as a street magician.


Why? Both are walking on water. Why is one just a 'trick' and another a 'miracle'?

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 05:45:22 AM »


Magic is not always about sleight of hand, trap doors, hidden compartments, smoke and mirrors or something up the sleeve.  I have seen some amazing street magic in India. 

Today's  trend to show magic right in the middle of a crown, on a personal one to one basis and without elaborate costumes, is great and shows us that there are many things that we don't understand. Maybe even the magicians themselves don't fully understand what they are doing......

We may choose to dismiss these events as 'tricks', illusions or  a con. But fact is that they clearly defy our understanding of normal life and normal laws of nature.

Yeah...I've heard of James Randi and his 1 million prize....but regardless of that, magic goes on merrily, growing every day!




Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3344
  • Freedom evolves.
Re: Magic
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2017, 07:32:39 AM »
Magic is not always about sleight of hand, trap doors, hidden compartments, smoke and mirrors or something up the sleeve.  I have seen some amazing street magic in India. 

Today's  trend to show magic right in the middle of a crown, on a personal one to one basis and without elaborate costumes, is great and shows us that there are many things that we don't understand. Maybe even the magicians themselves don't fully understand what they are doing......

We may choose to dismiss these events as 'tricks', illusions or  a con. But fact is that they clearly defy our understanding of normal life and normal laws of nature.

Seriously? People who say that they are doing tricks aren't doing tricks but are using 'real magic'.

Wow.
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Littleroses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21185
Re: Magic
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2017, 08:34:23 AM »

Maybe Jesus did the same thing...do you think?!

I suspect Jesus was a good magician and could pull the wool over the eyes of the credulous.
“The wise recognise their failings and laugh at their idiosyncrasies” RJG

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 08:39:50 AM »
Seriously? People who say that they are doing tricks aren't doing tricks but are using 'real magic'.

Wow.


One mans 'trick' is another mans 'miracle'.  A 'trick' need not mean what we think it does.

Do you think the guy walked on the Thames using a glass platform built surreptitiously by him.... or maybe he was held up by strings attached to a crane.... or maybe a helicopter was hovering above holding him up..... or maybe it was all just a hoax and all the people in the video are paid actors.....or maybe it was digitally made up...... ::)

Similarly with the Ellen video....


Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3344
  • Freedom evolves.
Re: Magic
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 08:55:53 AM »
One mans 'trick' is another mans 'miracle'.  A 'trick' need not mean what we think it does.

Do you think the guy walked on the Thames using a glass platform built surreptitiously by him.... or maybe he was held up by strings attached to a crane.... or maybe a helicopter was hovering above holding him up..... or maybe it was all just a hoax and all the people in the video are paid actors.....or maybe it was digitally made up...... ::)

Similarly with the Ellen video....

These people are professional conjurers and aren't claiming to be anything else. The whole point is that it looks impossible.
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

ekim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3197
Re: Magic
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2017, 09:22:33 AM »
Here's a light hearted version:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVugsBipaMA

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3344
  • Freedom evolves.
Re: Magic
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 09:46:21 AM »
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 02:36:09 PM »
These people are professional conjurers and aren't claiming to be anything else. The whole point is that it looks impossible.


That is the problem. Once we believe something very strongly that itself sets the boundaries to our knowledge. Just as some religious people believe that the moon landing is a hoax.


BeRational

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7929
Re: Magic
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 02:38:35 PM »

That is the problem. Once we believe something very strongly that itself sets the boundaries to our knowledge. Just as some religious people believe that the moon landing is a hoax.

What problem?

I see gullible people, everywhere!

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2017, 03:21:06 PM »
What problem?

That you see gullible people everywhere!  ;)

BeRational

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7929
Re: Magic
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 04:05:41 PM »
That you see gullible people everywhere!  ;)

I think you are certainly gullible yes.

You clearly are due to your unevidenced beliefs.

I see gullible people, everywhere!

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 04:28:56 PM »
I think you are certainly gullible yes.

You clearly are due to your unevidenced beliefs.


Now you should understand what I said in Msg.13!!!

BeRational

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7929
Re: Magic
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2017, 05:53:03 PM »

Now you should understand what I said in Msg.13!!!

Do you have faith?
I see gullible people, everywhere!

Gonnagle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11070
Re: Magic
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 06:41:19 PM »
Dear Sriram,

Quote
Why? Both are walking on water. Why is one just a 'trick' and another a 'miracle'?

No! What Sane is saying  ( message 5 ) it detracts from the true message of the Gospels, Sane is not a Christian ( but believe me when I tell you he has a Christian heart ) but he is saying do not fixate on the miracles, this is missed when reading the Gospels.

Here is a miracle you might have missed in the Gospels, my Lord bent before his Disciples and washed all their feet, and today millions of Christians perform that very same miracle.

Gonnagle.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/shop/shop-search.htm

http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Go on make a difference, have a rummage in your attic or garage.

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 06:44:26 AM »
Dear Sriram,

No! What Sane is saying  ( message 5 ) it detracts from the true message of the Gospels, Sane is not a Christian ( but believe me when I tell you he has a Christian heart ) but he is saying do not fixate on the miracles, this is missed when reading the Gospels.

Here is a miracle you might have missed in the Gospels, my Lord bent before his Disciples and washed all their feet, and today millions of Christians perform that very same miracle.

Gonnagle.

I agree with you Gonnagle. 'Miracles' are not important and that is why you won't find much emphasis on miracles in Hinduism...though Krishna is believed to have performed many.   It is character and humility that is important. 

My point was that Magic is a very real thing and not just some 'trick' as people like to think. Maybe it is some sort of an illusion or by-passing of natural laws that we don't understand. But the tendency of some people to dismiss it as 'just a trick'...is what I was questioning.

Maybe Jesus and Krishna and others, performed the same magic that this guy Dynamo is doing. That was my point.


Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3344
  • Freedom evolves.
Re: Magic
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 07:44:08 AM »
My point was that Magic is a very real thing and not just some 'trick' as people like to think. Maybe it is some sort of an illusion or by-passing of natural laws that we don't understand. But the tendency of some people to dismiss it as 'just a trick'...is what I was questioning.

This is beyond gullibility. Why are you so desperate to believe that this is 'real magic' that you accuse those who perform it of dishonesty?
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 07:50:24 AM »
This is beyond gullibility. Why are you so desperate to believe that this is 'real magic' that you accuse those who perform it of dishonesty?

????????

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3344
  • Freedom evolves.
Re: Magic
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2017, 07:54:21 AM »
????????

The performers don't claim to be doing 'real magic' - they say it's tricks - so why are you claiming they are being dishonest about it?
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Sriram

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
    • Spirituality & Science
Re: Magic
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2017, 08:12:48 AM »
The performers don't claim to be doing 'real magic' - they say it's tricks - so why are you claiming they are being dishonest about it?

I have already addressed that.  What 'trick' do you think Dynamo did while walking on the Thames? You would have no clue, I am sure.

My point is that something that is a 'trick' for Dynamo (or Jesus or Krishna) will not be a trick for you and me. It is something extraordinary.

But some of you will be unwilling to accept that there can be anything extraordinary or beyond natural laws that you cannot even understand. That is the problem.  You will continue to think in terms of trap doors, mirrors, glass platforms and so on....because that is all you know of.

What the real 'trick' is...you will not be able to understand.