Farron quits

[Walter]

Surely they have if Farron's policy is not that which he holds personally since the focus is what he holds personally (Thoughtcrime) rather than his policy.

what the...... and again in a proper sentence please.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

BBC now framing Stalinist rhetoric ''Isn't it about time to recognise religion has no place in public politics''.... I'm sure we can all think of horrendous similar statements. And yet the BBC seem quite casual about chucking this out as do I imagine, several Secular Humanists.

[Shaker]

what the...... and again in a proper sentence please.

As far as I can tell, in his ongoing war against what he thinks secular humanism is (as well as his ongoing war against reality and the English language, amongst other things) I think Vlad is trying to make out that Farron has been toppled by an organised conspiracy accusing him of thoughtcrime, i.e. that he shouldn't hold the views that he holds.

This completely ignores the fact that in his statement it was Farron himself who intimated an incompatibility between his personal religious views and the party line he is expected to take as leader of the LDs, hence his resignation. But don't expect Vlad to take that into account: it would interfere with his use of words he doesn't understand but which sound impressive.

[Walter]

As far as I can tell, in his ongoing war against what he thinks secular humanism is (as well as his ongoing war against reality and the English language, amongst other things) I think Vlad is trying to make out that Farron has been toppled by an organised conspiracy accusing him of thoughtcrime, i.e. that he shouldn't hold the views that he holds.

This completely ignores the fact that in his statement it was Farron himself who intimated an incompatibility between his personal religious views and the party line he is expected to take as leader of the LDs, hence his resignation. But don't expect Vlad to take that into account: it would interfere with his use of words he doesn't understand but which sound impressive.

An excellent clarification, thank you

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As far as I can tell, in his ongoing war against what he thinks secular humanism is (as well as his ongoing war against reality and the English language, amongst other things) I think Vlad is trying to make out that Farron has been toppled by an organised conspiracy accusing him of thoughtcrime, i.e. that he shouldn't hold the views that he holds.

This completely ignores the fact that in his statement it was Farron himself who intimated an incompatibility between his personal religious views and the party line he is expected to take as leader of the LDs, hence his resignation. But don't expect Vlad to take that into account: it would interfere with his use of words he doesn't understand but which sound impressive.

Come of it, we've had it on here, Atheists asks for one's position and when told then asks how deeply it is held or how deeply you celebrate it.

I distinctly remember conversations where you can not just concede that everybody should be allowed to be civilly married you THEN receive the inquisition and persuaded to to drop your view that Holy matrimony is between man and woman or that holy matrimony exists.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

An excellent clarification, thank you

Organised...it's worse than that ...It's casual.

[Walter]

Organised...it's worse than that ...It's casual.

Hmmm?

[Owlswing]

I distinctly remember conversations where you can not just concede that everybody should be allowed to be civilly married you THEN receive the inquisition and persuaded to to drop your view that Holy matrimony is between man and woman or that holy matrimony exists.

This is a gross misrepresentation of Shaker's position on the subject.

His stance, if I remember rightly, was that no-one should be forced into a Civil Partnership by religious objections to the use of churches for gay aor lesbian mariiages.

It was this point on which his objection to Civil Partnerships was based.

Now stop trying to twist the truth to fit your own hopelessly and morally discredited religiously biased views.

I have tried to mangle the English Language as far as I can so that you can understand it.

[Walter]

Come of it, we've had it on here, Atheists asks for one's position and when told then asks how deeply it is held or how deeply you celebrate it.

I distinctly remember conversations where you can not just concede that everybody should be allowed to be civilly married you THEN receive the inquisition and persuaded to to drop your view that Holy matrimony is between man and woman or that holy matrimony exists.

the word 'holy' has no meaning to me and I suspect, to many others.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

the word 'holy' has no meaning to me and I suspect, to many others.

And there are those who would wish to extend that ''lack of meaning'' on to others for whom it has meaning.

[Owlswing]

And there are those who would wish to extend that ''lack of meaning'' on to others for whom it has meaning.

Wrong way round, Vlad.

It is those who find meaning in religion who try and force it on those who find your religious beliefs meaningless!

[Walter]

Wrong way round, Vlad.

It is those who find meaning in religion who try and force it on those who find your religious beliefs meaningless!

you are right of course, but we will now just get back to the same old same old. Very tedious, unfortunately.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Wrong way round, Vlad.

It is those who find meaning in religion who try and force it on those who find your religious beliefs meaningless!

Not in the case of Farron.
Do you find meaning in religion? If not why are you posing as a pagan? You seem to want your cake and eat it.

[Shaker]

Wrong way round, Vlad.

It is those who find meaning in religion who try and force it on those who find your religious beliefs meaningless!

Like, let's say, the established church of a nation trying to prevent civil (i.e. secular) marriage, i.e. none of its business, for instance.

[Shaker]

Not in the case of Farron.
Do you find meaning in religion? If not why are you posing as a pagan? You seem to want your cake and eat it.

I assume that he finds meaning in his particular religious path (which seems 100% sincere to me, not a "pose") but doesn't expect that it has to be forced upon others or that others have to abide by it.

[Owlswing]

Not in the case of Farron.
Do you find meaning in religion? If not why are you posing as a pagan? You seem to want your cake and eat it.

As usual you twist words to your own purpose!

Of course I find meaning in my religious beliefs - BUT, and it is a damn great big BUT, I do not, ever, claim it to be the "one true faith", nor do I tell anyone else that they are wrong in their beliefs; in their claiming there is proof that their beliefs are fact, yes.

What I DO say is wrong is the way in which some religions (no names - no pack-drill) try to convert anyone who is not already of their beliefs to those beliefs.

[Owlswing]

I assume that he finds meaning in his particular religious path (which seems 100% sincere to me, not a "pose") but doesn't expect that it has to be forced upon others or that others have to abide by it.

You got it in one, Shaker; how come Vlad can't get it in 1,000 (approximately) attempts?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Like, let's say, the established church of a nation trying to prevent civil (i.e. secular) marriage, i.e. none of its business, for instance.

Let's see..... in the cakes business, atheists were on here were quoting the ''law of the land'' i.e. the importance of the preservation of the law.
Somehow they didn't likewise think the church had any business in shaping or preserving the law of the land. As we all know the establish church had none of the power or ability to frustrate the plans.

That is not the case with a majority where people think it is OK to question whether the religious should have any role in politics and take their own secular humanism as the sole bench mark of what is really a peculiar righteousness.

Big fat hypocrisy.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You got it in one, Shaker; how come Vlad can't get it in 1,000 (approximately) attempts?

He hasn't got it at all since he talks about forcing religion on people.
Christianity doesn't do that in the UK although prior to becoming a Christian I too mistakingly took that as read.
Let me make things clear to you.
No religion which believes in personal rather than corporate conversion through an existential Change and warmth of heart toward God also believes in forced conversion.
No Christian church is under the impression that it can do more than try to exert influence on the law of the land and no church is under the impression that it may at times hold any more than the minority position.
There is subsequently no particular expectation that people take what it says on board.

That's three suspect statements Shaker has made and you have supported him in.

If anything is being foisted here it is the tyranny of the majority.

[Owlswing]

He hasn't got it at all since he talks about forcing religion on people.
Christianity doesn't do that in the UK although prior to becoming a Christian I too mistakingly took that as read.
Let me make things clear to you.
No religion which believes in personal rather than corporate conversion through an existential Change and warmth of heart toward God also believes in forced conversion.
No Christian church is under the impression that it can do more than try to exert influence on the law of the land and no church is under the impression that it may at times hold any more than the minority position.
There is subsequently no particular expectation that people take what it says on board.

That's three suspect statements Shaker has made and you have supported him in.

If anything is being foisted here it is the tyranny of the majority.

Bullshit baffles brains - and you, Vlad, have in this post proved it beyond all reasonable doubt!

At least twice a week when I go shopping in Hounslow High Street there are Christains with their posters and their stands and their banners and their loudhailers and, sometimes, their choirs of children, telling anyone stupid enough to stop and listen that they MUST listen to and trun to and obey the God of the bible or they will surely burn in Hell for all eternity!

When you can say the same for any Pagan group - call me - I'm here!

[Shaker]

Let's see..... in the cakes business, atheists were on here were quoting the ''law of the land'' i.e. the importance of the preservation of the law.

Indeed, since the law (properly laws) in question related to equality and freedom from discrimination.

Somehow they didn't likewise think the church had any business in shaping or preserving the law of the land. As we all know the establish church had none of the power or ability to frustrate the plans.

Bishops/archbishops in the Lords seemed to think otherwise, I recall.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Bullshit baffles brains - and you, Vlad, have in this post proved it beyond all reasonable doubt!

At least twice a week when I go shopping in Hounslow High Street there are Christains with their posters and their stands and their banners and their loudhailers and, sometimes, their choirs of children,

Don't tell me........... you writhe on the ground screaming ''help. help, I'm being repressed'' and ''Get a policeman they've got three verses of all things bright and beautiful''?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Indeed, since the law (properly laws) in question related to equality and freedom from discrimination.Bishops/archbishops in the Lords seemed to think otherwise, I recall.

Are you seriously suggesting that 28 Bishops hold the balance of power against goodness knows how many secular humanists whose beliefs are firmly ensconsed as the prevailing culture and beliefscape'?''

[Shaker]

Are you seriously suggesting that 28 Bishops hold the balance of power against goodness knows how many secular humanists whose beliefs are firmly ensconsed as the prevailing culture and beliefscape'?''

Rather like certain Americans with Communists in the 50s, you seem to imagine these 'secular humanists' everywhere.

Show trials next Vlad? "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the British Humanist Association?"

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Rather like certain Americans with Communists in the 50s, you seem to imagine these 'secular humanists' everywhere.

Show trials next Vlad? "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the British Humanist Association?"

More so than Christians there are probably a lot more who are Secular Humanist than who associate (BHA) it's, as I say, Casual..............No trials necessary BHA are self advertising (Via books and celebrity worship)