Author Topic: The garden bridge plan is falling down  (Read 3360 times)

Nearly Sane

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The garden bridge plan is falling down
« on: August 14, 2017, 07:41:55 PM »

Never saw the point on this but 37m for nothing?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40921373

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2017, 08:18:04 PM »
Never saw the point on this but 37m for nothing?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40921373
I'm really pleased - I thought it was an awful idea. Effectively a bridge as a tourist attraction rather than as a functional ... err ... bridge.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2017, 08:20:08 PM »
I'm really pleased - I thought it was an awful idea. Effectively a bridge as a tourist attraction rather than as a functional ... err ... bridge.
With you on it, but it's a lot of money for nothing, isn't it Boris?

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2017, 08:33:11 PM »
With you on it, but it's a lot of money for nothing, isn't it Boris?
Sure £37m should never have been wasted - but better to scrap it now rather than throw more and more money down the drain.

Steve H

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2017, 11:22:15 PM »
£37,000,000 is peanuts to the government.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2017, 03:08:19 AM »
Sure £37m should never have been wasted - but better to scrap it now rather than throw more and more money down the drain.
And not arguing that it shouldn't, but that to have spent 37m so far is something that is indicative of bad controls.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 03:09:17 AM »
£37,000,000 is peanuts to the government.
And? Does that mean that you think it's OK to waste the money?

Robbie

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2017, 04:56:52 AM »
Morning, typing this in bed with cuppa.  Getting up 'properly' about 5.30.

I knew nothing about the garden bridge before seeing this thread& agree the expense is ridiculous especially as so many are facing minimal (negligible) pay rises atm & many more can't even afford to buy their first property! Not fair that the bridge should have been publicly funded. Outrageous even.

Yet Ican see something truly beautiful about it, t'would have attracted much attention. I'd have loved to see it and walk along it.

As the capital has so many multi-millionaires living in its midst & vast sums already spent, why can there not be a 'whip round' to complete the project?
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2017, 09:15:20 AM »
I'm really pleased - I thought it was an awful idea. Effectively a bridge as a tourist attraction rather than as a functional ... err ... bridge.

Taken up bean counting in your old age?

What the hell is wrong with a little bit of frivolity?
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Shaker

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2017, 09:22:15 AM »
What the hell is wrong with a little bit of frivolity?
About £200,000,000 worth of wrong.

I agree with Robinson - it sounds a marvellous idea, but I couldn't justify the cost.

Quote
As the capital has so many multi-millionaires living in its midst & vast sums already spent, why can there not be a 'whip round' to complete the project?

Guess not:

Quote
... as early as January, the trust filed accounts for 2016 at Companies House in which its chairman Lord Davies admitted the project was not currently a "going concern" and that it had failed to raise any private funds since August 2016.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 09:27:43 AM by Shaker »
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Rhiannon

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2017, 09:29:02 AM »
I'm another one who thinks the concept is a beautiful one, but one that is clearly undeliverable.

Shaker

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2017, 09:32:14 AM »
That scuppers my hope of rebuilding the original London Bridge, with shops and houses along either side, like the Pulteney Bridge in Bath - there are only four such bridges left in the world, IIRC.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2017, 10:19:15 AM »
I'm another one who thinks the concept is a beautiful one, but one that is clearly undeliverable.
I cannot disagree with you more - regardless of the cost I thought the whole concept was appalling.

I'm not sure how many of you live/work in London so are very familiar with the proposed location. I am and it is folly from start to finish.

1. The first requirement for a bridge, surely, is that it takes you from somewhere you need to be to somewhere else you need to be. The bridge failed on this primary requisite, joining a 'dead' zone on the north bank (Embankment area basically closed off by Middle/Inner Temple of the Courts) to a part of the South Bank without major destination (you walk along the South Bank, rather than travel to it). There are two bridges right next to the Garden Bridge (Waterloo and Blackfriars, and slightly further along Hungerford) that go directly from major points of interest on the north bank to similar on the south (e.g. Royal Festival Hall, National Theatre, Globe, Tate Modern). Contrast with Millennium Bridge which joins two of the most popular sites in London (St Pauls and Tate modern) and creates a new iconic view without destroying one (see below).

2. The iconic view from the south bank across to the skyline of the city and St Pauls cathedral would have been destroyed by the bridge by virtue of its height (way higher than all the other bridges due to the trees on it) and its location.

3. I love the idea of green links - I have one very near to where I work - but they need to be continuous with other green spaces, so the one near me basically joins to parks so they are continuous and you feel you never leave the park despite crossing a major road. Same with the 'High Line' in New York. This bridge failed on that count too as there are now equivalent green spaces on either bank for it to join.

4. In order to create the 'green' bridge dozens of fully established trees on the south bank which create a lovely shady area would have been destroyed - not very 'green'.

5. If a bridge is to be of any use as a transport link you need to rely on it being open - yet this bridge was to be closed on numerous days for 'corporate' functions. Without doubt the number of those days would have expanded over time - the notion that you might close a bridge for a private party is just bonkers, if it is to function as a bridge.

6. The local communities on both sides of the river were strongly opposed - tells you all you need to know - if they didn't think the bridge was needed then I think you can conclude it isn't needed.

I could go on, but I won't - terrible idea and great news that it has now been sunk for good - shame about the money down the drain too.

Rhiannon

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2017, 10:24:19 AM »
Yes, I know the area, and I agree that it wasn't the right place for it, which is one big reason it's undeliverable. I still like the concept hugely but anything like it has to be in the right place. I was just reading about a proposal to create a linear park put of old sidings in Camden. Looking at successful projects across the globe the key seems to be to resuse something that's no longer for for its original purpose rather than start from scratch.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/may/19/seoul-skygarden-south-korea-london-garden-bridge
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 10:26:55 AM by Rhiannon »

Nearly Sane

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2017, 10:54:57 AM »
Oddly enough I was thinking about this last week while walking through Glasgow. We have an abandoned railway line  with bridge running through the East End of the centre. It's been abandoned so long it's already part garden bridge, just not open to anyone. The locations may be a bit questionable but as a regeneration project it might make sense. That said, I fear the current economic climate here is precarious. Any such project needs to make economic sense and perhaps we missed a trick in not doing it as part of the Commonwealth Games.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2017, 12:50:18 PM »
Oddly enough I was thinking about this last week while walking through Glasgow. We have an abandoned railway line  with bridge running through the East End of the centre. It's been abandoned so long it's already part garden bridge, just not open to anyone. The locations may be a bit questionable but as a regeneration project it might make sense. That said, I fear the current economic climate here is precarious. Any such project needs to make economic sense and perhaps we missed a trick in not doing it as part of the Commonwealth Games.
That's right - I think there are great opportunities in many cities to create linear green spaces on derelict land. And in doing so to open up new routes for commuting and simply enjoying that are detached from traffic etc.

But these have to be more than a mere tourist attraction - they must also be genuinely useful to the communities nearby and also to enhance environmental diversity etc.

The ghastly Garden Bridge was none of these things.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2017, 01:41:24 PM »
OK.

Thanks for the information, Prof, I was of the (clearly incorrect) impression that it was farther west - Battersea perhaps.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2017, 01:56:29 PM »
OK.

Thanks for the information, Prof, I was of the (clearly incorrect) impression that it was farther west - Battersea perhaps.
Nope - about 100m east of Waterloo Bridge, and 200m west of Blackfriars Bridge, joining the non-descript area on the Embankment near Temple tube to the area on the South Bank around Gabriel's wharf - specifically the area with dozens of mature trees (most of which would have been destroyed).

Also interesting that those in favour of the bridge always give artists impressions from a raised angle (which will never be the actual sight line). However they were required to provide 'pavement' level views for planing application. This is from the South Bank with its (current) iconic vista across the great sweep of the Thames across to St Paul's and the City.

http://www.theecologist.org/campaigning/2985103/londons_garden_bridge_a_damaging_folly_at_public_expense.html

Scroll down page and top left thumbnail.

Note view of St Paul's and most of the river obliterated.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 05:48:50 PM by ProfessorDavey »

SusanDoris

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2017, 02:06:45 PM »
I agree with all those who think it is not a good idea. I heard an interview on Radio 4 yesterday and what I heard then was quite enough to put me firmly on the side of forget it.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2017, 05:46:42 PM »
Nope - about 100m east of Waterloo Bridge, and 100m west of Blackfriars Bridge, joining the non-descipt area on the Embankment near Temple tube to the area on the South Bank around Gabriel's wharf - specifically the area with dozens of mature trees (most of which would have been destroyed).

Also interesting that those in favour of the bridge always give artists impressions from a raised angle (which will never be the actual sight line). However they were required to provide 'pavement' level views for planing application. This is from the South Bank with its (current) iconic vista across the great sweep of the Thames across to St Paul's and the City.

http://www.theecologist.org/campaigning/2985103/londons_garden_bridge_a_damaging_folly_at_public_expense.html

Scroll down page and top left thumbnail.

Note view of St Paul's and most of the river obliterated.
And these rather wonderful trees would have been cut down to create the south bank part of the bridge.

https://www.tcos.org.uk/single-post/2017/05/24/Celebrate-the-South-Bank-trees-Saturday-10th-June-4pm

Note too the view of St Paul's through those trees that would have been lost forever.

Before and after shot from South Bank below

http://www.innerlondonramblers.org.uk/current-campaigns/oppose-the-garden-bridge.html

Before - view of the river with St Paul's in the distance
After - view of the rather unattractive concrete underside of the bridge

Hurrah that the folly with its powerful friends (Lumley, Johnson, Osborne) has been defeated by the little people.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2017, 05:57:51 PM »
Boris Johnson has form on expensive vanity projects.

Step forward the New route master bus - far more expensive than alternatives and never likely to gain economy of scale as they aren't sold anywhere else, too heavy (due to unnecessary second staircase) and therefore never achieved stated environmental targets and with the dangerous 'hop-on, hop-off' platform no longer used.

Steve H

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2017, 08:22:43 PM »
It's been axed, and good bloody riddance. Now maybe they can do the same for HS2.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2017, 08:45:44 PM »
Now maybe they can do the same for HS2.

There are two things seriously wrong with HS2'

1 - It is about 20 years late.

2 - It is not integrated into the European international rail network.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2017, 08:39:57 AM »
There are two things seriously wrong with HS2'

1 - It is about 20 years late.

2 - It is not integrated into the European international rail network.
Agree up to a point, but I support HS2.

You are right that we should have been building this ages ago, like many European countries did - but better late than never. It is a national failing that we seem to take forever to make difficult decisions as if the decision is somehow more palatable if delayed interminably.

It would certainly be better to integrate with the Eurostar, but Euston and St Pancras are 10mins from each other walking. They are much closer than the interconnections in Paris

Harrowby Hall

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Re: The garden bridge plan is falling down
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2017, 09:34:04 AM »
I recall something Margaret Thatcher said when Docklands was being regenerated - effectively she appeared to say that we should wait and see what the demands would be before "installing" infrastructure.

As for Paris connections, yes Paris-Nord and Montparnasse are some distance apart, but if I wanted to go to London by TGV from Agen (where I am at present) I can catch a train which skirts Paris on its way to Brussels and change at Lille (admittedly, there aren't many of them). The original plan when the Channel Tunnel was built was to have international trains running from Scotland (ECML) and Manchester (WCML) via a link near Kings Cross and Stratford to the tunnel. Special train sets capable of being used on British loading gauge were built but the idea was scuppered by Immigration and Customs and Excise objections.
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