Parents shot children with BB gun

[floo]

deleted

[Robbie]

I read the article with mouth hanging open. It's too horrible for words!

[Free Willy]

This story really made me very angry indeed, not least for the ridiculously light sentences imposed on the evil pair!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-41160213

When their five children didn't do their chores properly or anything else which angered the parents they would shoot them with their pellet gun!

I would ensure parents like that were rendered incapable of ever reproducing again.

With a pellet gun?

[Robbie]

Must admit that was my first thought. Spotted dick came to mind....
What kind of 'orrible people are they though?  Poor kids.

[Robbie]

I note they have FIVE children!  The dad is 50 but mum is only 33 & unless she has already been sterilised, is likely to find someone & become pregnant again.  One would hope she doesn't want to but nothing would surprise me. She's doing some unpaid work as a punishment, he is imprisoned.

[Free Willy]

I think people who have been found guilty of calculated cruelty towards their offspring as these parents have, they should be prevented from having anymore children by surgical means. If they won't agree to it, then it should be forced upon them.

Until now Ive always wondered what Floo's appeal was.

[Rhiannon]

I suggest shooting judges who make muppet decisions with pellet guns. Utterly inadequate.

[Shaker]

I agree, the sentences should have been long gaol terms for both parents.

Psychotherapy seems more appropriate to me. Shooting your kids with a pellet gun for not doing their chores properly is the action of somebody not playing with a full deck.

[Rhiannon]

Psychotherapy seems more appropriate to me. Shooting your kids with a pellet gun for not doing their chores properly is the action of somebody not playing with a full deck.

Some things aren't fixable no matter how much psychotherapy is available. Trust me, I've seen it.

[Shaker]

True. Alas.

[Steve H]

I think the sentences are proportionate. Two years is a long sentence.

[Shaker]

I think the sentences are proportionate. Two years is a long sentence.

It would be if that's what was served. In actuality it'll be about eight months.

[Rhiannon]

I think the sentences are proportionate. Two years is a long sentence.

And what sentence will the children have to live through? Suggest you google 'complex trauma as a result of childhood abuse'.

Two years is nothing. Not for this level of cruelty.

[Steve H]

No, I'm NOT!!!! He'll serve at least a year.

[ippy]

Whilst I'm sure I'm like most people where my first feelings are gut feelings about such people and I say things like they should be hung up by the thumbs for several days.

When you stop to think about these things really we should be looking for ways of preventing these peole reoffending,and some of the ways of doing this are inclined to look like rewards for offending that over the long term work for various reasons such as breaking the circle of offending in various families etc.

These reward like methods are used rather successfully by our scandinavian neighbours and they are making our flog em and hang em tatics look shabby, I was reading recently Norway is top of the league table at the mo for cutting down on reoffenders and I believe Denmark isn't that far behind.

We have to use the methods that work and realise following our gut feelings is hardly ever right.

Ippy

[Rhiannon]

Whilst I'm sure I'm like most people where my first feelings are gut feelings about such people and I say things like they should be hung up by the thumbs for several days.

When you stop to think about these things really we should be looking for ways of preventing these peole reoffending,and some of the ways of doing this are inclined to look like rewards for offending that over the long term work for various reasons such as breaking the circle of offending in various families etc.

These reward like methods are used rather successfully by our scandinavian neighbours and they are making our flog em and hang em tatics look shabby, I was reading recently Norway is top of the league table at the mo for cutting down on reoffenders and I believe Denmark isn't that far behind.

We have to use the methods that work and realise following our gut feelings is hardly ever right.

Ippy

As it happens I agree with you in the sense that there is zero point in punishing people. Equally I agree that there are far better methods to deal with the majority of criminal offences than prison. But this is child abuse; you cannot cure an abusive personality (such as narcissism or sociopathy) with therapy. The statistics indicate that the children who have endured this abuse will suffer lifelong and will need their own therapy either to avoid repeating the abuse of the parents or to deal with sex harm, addiction, anxiety and depression and suicidal thinking. The people that cause this abuse cannot be fit to be out in society and prison is currently the only tool we have to stop them.

[jeremyp]

I agree, the sentences should have been long gaol terms for both parents.

What would that have achieved?

[jeremyp]

And what sentence will the children have to live through? Suggest you google 'complex trauma as a result of childhood abuse'.

Two years is nothing. Not for this level of cruelty.

How will putting this man in prison for a long time mitigate the complex trauma that the children have suffered? If he goes to prison for life, will it lessen their trauma?

[Rhiannon]

How will putting this man in prison for a long time mitigate the complex trauma that the children have suffered? If he goes to prison for life, will it lessen their trauma?

The problem is that he will be free to offend again. The longer he is off the streets the safer people are, and not just children. And please don't think that the law and social services will protect against that; they should, but sometimes they won't, and sometimes they can't.

I agree that abusers can't be kep in jail indefinitely, but the longer he is in jail for - and the mother too - the longer people are safe. Because some people aren't safe, but aren't criminally insane either. If you have a better solution I'll love to hear it because god alone knows we need something.

[Shaker]

What would that have achieved?

It would give him lots and lots of time to think about what a bad idea shooting your children with a pellet gun is.

[Robbie]

Psychotherapy seems more appropriate to me. Shooting your kids with a pellet gun for not doing their chores properly is the action of somebody not playing with a full deck.

I can't see how psychotherapy is going to be of much use to people who deliberately do something so cruel.   Terrible acts of violence are not usually dealt with by psychotherapy.

It would probably take a lot more than the guy's prison sentence for him to grasp how wrong it was for him to shoot the kids with the BB gun.

Quite right that he is being punished with prison for such abuse though I think the sentence is not long enough.   Don't know what the judge was thinking.

[jeremyp]

The problem is that he will be free to offend again. The longer he is off the streets the safer people are, and not just children.

So, in your opinion, there is a strong likelihood that this man will reoffend. What is your evidence for that hypothesis and why do you think your evidence is better than that available to the sentencing judge (who has, at least, met the man)?

[jeremyp]

It would give him lots and lots of time to think about what a bad idea shooting your children with a pellet gun is.

He's already going to prison. I think he probably knows by now that it is a really bad idea.

[Rhiannon]

So, in your opinion, there is a strong likelihood that this man will reoffend. What is your evidence for that hypothesis and why do you think your evidence is better than that available to the sentencing judge (who has, at least, met the man)?

And how many child abusers do you know, Jeremy?

[Shaker]

He's already going to prison. I think he probably knows by now that it is a really bad idea.

No harm in making sure.