If men had a nine o’clock curfew.

[Rhiannon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/491cd13b-fcfd-4e9b-b64d-a72cf8ad8c8b

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I have a nine o'clock curfew anyway, because I have to get up at 04:00 so as to go to work to provide for my family.

[SweetPea]

I have a nine o'clock curfew anyway, because I have to get up at 04:00 so as to go to work to provide for my family.

Well said Humph. Have a listen.... "Men Too":

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT76vtj9EDk

[Rhiannon]

Well said Humph. Have a listen.... "Men Too":

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT76vtj9EDk

What did he ‘well say’? Both genders have to plan their lives around work and providing for their families, it’s not just men. But as the article says many consider it a male privilege to even consider going out after dark, camping on the beach, jogging at night...

[SweetPea]

What did he ‘well say’? Both genders have to plan their lives around work and providing for their families, it’s not just men. But as the article says many consider it a male privilege to even consider going out after dark, camping on the beach, jogging at night...

You missed Humph's point entirely Rhiannon.

Did you listen to the video I posted? Any thoughts?

[Rhiannon]

You missed Humph's point entirely Rhiannon.

Did you listen to the video I posted? Any thoughts?

No I didn’t. It’s yet more of his ‘men as victims’ bullshit.

There’s no excuse for the nauseating wankery in your link. Made me laugh though. To think people actually take that seriously...

[Humph Warden Bennett]

What did he ‘well say’? Both genders have to plan their lives around work and providing for their families, it’s not just men. But as the article says many consider it a male privilege to even consider going out after dark, camping on the beach, jogging at night...

Those "many" are just a few feminists whining on the Internet. Both genders and many age groups jog at night in my local area, although few go in the park because it has no lighting. I don't go jogging at night because my non male privileged right knee cannot take it.

[Rhiannon]

Those "many" are just a few feminists whining on the Internet. Both genders and many age groups jog at night in my local area, although few go in the park because it has no lighting. I don't go jogging at night because my non male privileged right knee cannot take it.

Evidence by anecdote? Don't think so.

When a woman gets raped walking home at night there's the inevitable advice on how to 'stay safe'. If only she'd 'stayed safe' she wouldn't have been raped. So we do. We modify our behaviour, don't go out at night, always get cabs, however lovely the evening, keep our keys ready, don't leave windows open, lock doors. Because the responsibility is on us to 'stay safe'. And we are to blame if we don't, in a way that a man walking home who gets mugged never is.

[Robbie]

You missed Humph's point entirely Rhiannon.

Did you listen to the video I posted? Any thoughts?

I saw about half, will watch the rest later. I get it. The majority of men are not sex offenders and men do experience sexual harassment, I've seen that. Thanks for posting, good to have a different pov.

No I didn’t. It’s yet more of his ‘men as victims’ bullshit.

There’s no excuse for the nauseating wankery in your link. Made me laugh though. To think people actually take that seriously...

If you didn't look at video how do you know it is what you said? There are plenty of good men.

I cannot believe you are so rude to someone as gentle as Sweet Pea!
We are allowed to have different opinions.

[Rhiannon]

I saw about half, will watch the rest later. I get it. The majority of men are not sex offenders and men do experience sexual harassment, I've seen that. Thanks for posting, good to have a different pov.

If you didn't look at video how do you know it is what you said? There are plenty of good men.

I cannot believe you are so rude to someone as gentle as Sweet Pea!
We are allowed to have different opinions.

Her views scare me. I don't like being told I'm one of Satan's instruments, which she has said to me in the past. And she is has posted links to antisemitic conspiracy theories. I find that objectionable. See bottom of this page and comment following.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=12177.0

I did look at the video, what makes you think that I didn't? That scares me too.

Even nice, gentle people can have dangerous views.

[SweetPea]

Rhiannon

I find the title of this thread and name of the link quite nauseating. Can you seriously imagine such a scenario? You see this is when feminist activists start to sound unhinged and 'dangerous'. Men have every right to have a similar movement, but male sexual abuse and abuse goes more or less unreported. There is a whole lot more to feminism than equality in the workplace. It can destroy marriages. If a man speaks out against feminist activists he is immediately labelled a woman hater and misogynist; how often though do you hear the term 'misandrist' or a discussion on 'misandry'?

A movement can never be about equality, if it only focuses on one group. That's not how equality works.

Regards the 'me' bashing I have never referred to you as "one of Satan's instruments" and I am not anti-Semitic.

*******

Robbie, thank you for your kind words.   

[Rhiannon]

Rhiannon

I find the title of this thread and name of the link quite nauseating. Can you seriously imagine such a scenario? You see this is when feminist activists start to sound unhinged and 'dangerous'. Men have every right to have a similar movement, but male sexual abuse and abuse goes more or less unreported. There is a whole lot more to feminism than equality in the workplace. It can destroy marriages. If a man speaks out against feminist activists he is immediately labelled a woman hater and misogynist; how often though do you hear the term 'misandrist' or a discussion on 'misandry'?

A movement can never be about equality, if it only focuses on one group. That's not how equality works.

Regards the 'me' bashing I have never referred to you as "one of Satan's instruments" and I am not anti-Semitic.

*******

Robbie, thank you for your kind words.

Yeah, you did, you said that as a pantheist I was led astray by Satan. No, I don't believe you to be antisemtitic, I just think you are gullible. As your link shows.

The thread title refers to what is known as a 'thought experiment'. Do you know what one is?

'Me Too' did include men - or do the victims of Kevin Spacey not count as he too is a powerful male?

As for feminism destroying marriages...Christ.

Feminism is about *equality* which means listening to men's stories too. I've dated men who have been abused and I am friends with men who have been abused. Traditional gender roles don't give men an equal voice either. How can a man speak out about his own abuse given the toxic notion of 'headship' the supporters of the woman is your link espouse?

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/491cd13b-fcfd-4e9b-b64d-a72cf8ad8c8b

I appreciate the point trying to be made about how a lot of men probably never have to think about safety checks the way a lot of women do and yes I might feel safer when walking about or driving alone at night, and I would appreciate being able to go for a run after 9pm, however I also think some women can be pretty vile and dangerous to other women (and men), especially drunk women or gangs of women. If there was a male curfew, the criminal elements - men and women - would just come up with a way to attack people using women. Women criminals can invite unsuspecting victims to a place indoors where criminals could be waiting. In fact that would probably make the hunt easier if the prey willingly walked into the trap by falsely assuming women can be trusted.

More importantly, I want to be able to meet up with my husband and male friends after 9pm outside, as it would be boring as hell to only have the company of women. Also my Kung Fu teacher was a man (he died last year) and my classes used to finish at 10pm so I would have lost out if he had a 9pm curfew - he was a better teacher than any female teachers I have come across though some of the women have been good. I prefer doing pad work with men - they tend to hit harder than women. I can think of lots of reasons why I would hate the idea of a 9pm curfew for men, despite the dangers posed by a few criminals. Also a lot of attacks happen in the home, by people you know and trust, rather than out on the street.

Oh and these days what's the point of a male curfew - a male criminal could just self-identify as a woman to get around it. 

[Rhiannon]

I appreciate the point trying to be made about how a lot of men probably never have to think about safety checks the way a lot of women do and yes I might feel safer when walking about or driving alone at night, and I would appreciate being able to go for a run after 9pm, however I also think some women can be pretty vile and dangerous to other women (and men), especially drunk women or gangs of women. If there was a male curfew, the criminal elements - men and women - would just come up with a way to attack people using women. Women criminals can invite unsuspecting victims to a place indoors where criminals could be waiting. In fact that would probably make the hunt easier if the prey willingly walked into the trap by falsely assuming women can be trusted.

More importantly, I want to be able to meet up with my husband and male friends after 9pm outside, as it would be boring as hell to only have the company of women. Also my Kung Fu teacher was a man (he died last year) and my classes used to finish at 10pm so I would have lost out if he had a 9pm curfew - he was a better teacher than any female teachers I have come across though some of the women have been good. I prefer doing pad work with men - they tend to hit harder than women. I can think of lots of reasons why I would hate the idea of a 9pm curfew for men, despite the dangers posed by a few criminals. Also a lot of attacks happen in the home, by people you know and trust, rather than out on the street.

Oh and these days what's the point of a male curfew - a male criminal could just self-identify as a woman to get around it.

It really is just a thought experiment. Like you I enjoy a nocturnal life in the company of men. I think its value is in flagging up the ways in which women modify their behaviour, and the fact that if they do fall victim to attack not 'staying safe' is then used as a way of attaching blame to them.

[SweetPea]

Rhiannon

I was talking about myself as a pantheist in my new age days, not you - but you identified with what I was saying.

I'm not going any further with this but to say why even post such a thread and link if not to cause friction. As for the patronising 'do I know what a thought experiment is' of course I do.

Nice try re feminism is about equality, and I note your back peddling madly.

If you think feminism has not destroyed marriages then you need to do more research.

 

[Robbie]

Rhiannon I took you to mean you hadn't seen the video when you answered SP with
"No I didn't". However now presume you were saying you didn't miss Humph's point.

(Quote from: SweetPea on Today at 02:27:15 PM
You missed Humph's point entirely Rhiannon.

Did you listen to the video I posted? Any thoughts?

Rhiannon -No I didn’t. It’s yet more of his ‘men as victims’ bullshit.)

I looked at the thread to which you posted link, it's from before my time but I scrolled down and opened the link to Rodney Atkinson's talk. I didn't know about that, he was a UKIP man I believe but still what he said was just another pov amongst many. Doubt it's made much impact.

[Rhiannon]

Rhiannon I took you to mean you hadn't seen the video when you answered SP with
"No I didn't". However now presume you were saying you didn't miss Humph's point.

(Quote from: SweetPea on Today at 02:27:15 PM
You missed Humph's point entirely Rhiannon.

Did you listen to the video I posted? Any thoughts?

Rhiannon -No I didn’t. It’s yet more of his ‘men as victims’ bullshit.)

I looked at the thread to which you posted link, it's from before my time but I scrolled down and opened the link to Rodney Atkinson's talk. I didn't know about that, he was a UKIP man I believe but still what he said was just another pov amongst many. Doubt it's made much impact.

No worries. 

[Robbie]

I went back and read four pages of that 2016 thread about who was for staying in or leaving the EU. Not pleasant! I hate threads where people get personal with eachother and I wonder, do you file them away in a library to bring out occasionally, eg "I remember what you said in 2015"?

There were some posters on the thread I don't know. One called Bubbles stood out as a calm voice of reason, I don't know if he's gone but would be good if he returned.

[Aruntraveller]

Bubbles was a she. No longer on this board.

[Rhiannon]

I wonder what the Sesrch facility st the top of the page could possibly be for....

[Nearly Sane]

Have to admit to some baffeleitis at the reactions to the idea in the OP. It isn't a serious proposal, it is just a thought experiment that allows women to talk about how they feel their freedoms are being reduced by the their perception of threat. That not all women are saints is just a piece of whatabouttery in the face of the facts that for whatever reasons, males are the more violent and threatening of the sexes.

[Rhiannon]

Yes, it is very much about perception of risk. As a mother I'm very aware that while my girls will be more at risk of sexual assault on a night out, my son will be more at risk of physical assault and murder. But we don't expect males to 'stay safe' in the same way. Some of that is because we expect males to defend themselves, but there does seem to be a thing about blaming women for not taking actions to avoid assault; a man walking home from a night out or from work is just doing what he has to do, whereas a woman is 'taking a risk'.

It's still the case though that while men are equally at risk of being victims of one kind or another, the odds are that their assailants will be other males. Violence by women is far more likely to be hidden.

[Nearly Sane]

I think the other aspect of it is that the idea that women are somehow 'asking for it' when attacked is much more part of the psyche all round.

[Rhiannon]

I think the other aspect of it is that the idea that women are somehow 'asking for it' when attacked is much more part of the psyche all round.

Yes, or as has been discussed recently, that women are somehow there to be taken. Especially young women.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Evidence by anecdote? Don't think so.

When a woman gets raped walking home at night there's the inevitable advice on how to 'stay safe'. If only she'd 'stayed safe' she wouldn't have been raped. So we do. We modify our behaviour, don't go out at night, always get cabs, however lovely the evening, keep our keys ready, don't leave windows open, lock doors. Because the responsibility is on us to 'stay safe'. And we are to blame if we don't, in a way that a man walking home who gets mugged never is.

When a man gets mugged or beaten up because he did not "stay safe", do feminists care?

Go to the centre of Woolwich at night, or Lewisham, there are gangs of young women roaming. And it aint males whom they pick on.