We've had two popes John Paul...

[Anchorman]

That was John.

Coincindentally, John (not  that one)
Wrote that Christ prayed in Gethsemene
"I pray for My people, that they might be one."
I don't recall Christ saying
".....as long as a shower of theologians and politicians are the ones who say what 'one' is...."

[ProfessorDavey]

Coincindentally, John (not  that one)
Wrote that Christ prayed in Gethsemene
"I pray for My people, that they might be one."
I don't recall Christ saying
".....as long as a shower of theologians and politicians are the ones who say what 'one' is...."

And which 'John' would that be exactly - as historians are completely unclear as to the author.

At least Paul is still alive to attest that John wrote 'yellow matter custard' - this, well ... not so much.

[Steve H]

And which 'John' would that be exactly - as historians are completely unclear as to the author.

At least Paul is still alive to attest that John wrote 'yellow matter custard' - this, well ... not so much.

Who wrote it doesn't matter.

[Anchorman]

Wot Steve H said. Though I don't see any reason to doubt that the writer of 1 & 2 John was not the same one as the writer of the Gospel. There might be a case for 3 John, but I'm not convinced that this, too did not come from the same source. Since the 1 John and the Gospel are very close stylistically,and quotes from both survive from around AD 90, I have no problem that they were either written by, or dictaded by, the disciple John, brother of James.

[ProfessorDavey]

Who wrote it doesn't matter.

Of course it matters - without knowing the author it is impossible to ascertain the context and the level of bias in what he wrote. It also becomes very difficult to understand the trail to actual events, noting that most likely dates are some 60-80 years after Jesus' death.

[ProfessorDavey]

... I have no problem that they were either written by, or dictaded by, the disciple John, brother of James.

Hand waving assertions. You might want that to be true as it fits with your beliefs, but you don't have evidence that it  it is true.

[Anchorman]

Hand waving assertions. You might want that to be true as it fits with your beliefs, but you don't have evidence that it  it is true.

Nor is their evidence to the contrary.
By the way, since quotes from both the first letter and Gospel exist in other writings around 90 AD, they must both have been in circulation before then, making the time between thwe events of both shorter than eighty years.
I'd say fifty-ish for the Gospel, probably 20-30 for the letter.

[ProfessorDavey]

Nor is their evidence to the contrary.

You are the one making assertions as to authorships, therefore the onus on providing evidence to support that assertion rests entirely with you.

By the way, since quotes from both the first letter and Gospel exist in other writings around 90 AD, they must both have been in circulation before then, making the time between thwe events of both shorter than eighty years.
I'd say fifty-ish for the Gospel, probably 20-30 for the letter.

More un-evidenced assertions. Most historians date both to approx 90-110.

But even if your 20-30 years were correct (you have no evidence for this) then that is still, literally, decades after the events. Who knows what level of misinterpretation, exaggeration, spin may have been added across even that more limited timespan.

[jeremyp]

By the way, since quotes from both the first letter and Gospel exist in other writings around 90 AD, they must both have been in circulation before then,

Could you elaborate as to which writings you you are talking about. I've not heard of any quotes from that early before.