Smoking and anti-smoking

[Steve H]

Apparently, my thread was removed because it started with a longish exchange copied and pasted from Facebook, and the others, not being members here, can't reply. Anyway, to summarise: someone posted a link to a news item about a Welsh Assembly member who wants to ban smoking in all city centres in Wales, even in the open. I said that that was outrageous, and that restrictions on smoking had already gone too far, but someone els welcomed it, and later said that he'd like smoking banned altogether. I said that pubs etc. should be allowed (but not obliged, which I should have added) to provide a room for smokers which didn't directly connect with food or drink preparation or serving areas. That was criticised because staff would have to go in to clear up and clean. I said that users could be asked to return their own glasses, and cleaning is done when the pub (or whatever) is closed and empty.
So what do people think?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Steve H,

Anyway, the question is simple enough I'd have thought: is the right to smoke in public more or less important than the right of others not to breathe their smoke or to be coated in it? I say less, but if there are arrangements whereby no-one has to breathe the smoke of others that's just a matter for the smokers themselves. Those filthy glass boxes they often have in airports come to mind as an example. (Dear god how desperate must you be to want to go into one of those?)

As a parent by the way, when our children were in buggies and/or toddlers what infuriated me in the street was smokers holding their fags at their head height, often close to their eyes too. That can't be right surely? While I'm on one I'd also want segregated areas in pub gardens, by pools etc. It's such a pain having to move sun bed when having set up someone a few feet away starts blowing clouds of carcinogens over you and yours.

Final thought: an under-appreciated fact is that net smokers save more money than they cost because enough of them die before old age significantly to lower the burden of expensive geriatric care. Thank you!
 
Apart from that though...   

[Maeght]

Apparently, my thread was removed because it started with a longish exchange copied and pasted from Facebook, and the others, not being members here, can't reply. Anyway, to summarise: someone posted a link to a news item about a Welsh Assembly member who wants to ban smoking in all city centres in Wales, even in the open. I said that that was outrageous, and that restrictions on smoking had already gone too far, but someone els welcomed it, and later said that he'd like smoking banned altogether. I said that pubs etc. should be allowed (but not obliged, which I should have added) to provide a room for smokers which didn't directly connect with food or drink preparation or serving areas. That was criticised because staff would have to go in to clear up and clean. I said that users could be asked to return their own glasses, and cleaning is done when the pub (or whatever) is closed and empty.
So what do people think?

Smoke can linger in the air for 2 to 3 hours after you've finished a cigarette, even with a window open, according to the NHS website. It also says 'Most secondhand smoke is invisible and odourless, so no matter how careful you think you're being, people around you still breathe in the harmful poisons.' & 'Also, even if you limit smoking to one room, the smoke will spread to the rest of the house where people will inhale it.' So unless you introduce airlocks, expensive air filtration equipment, isolation periods or the like then staff would still be exposed to toxins in the scenario you suggest.

I don't think the bans on smoking have gone too far at all and think other bans should be considered and introduced based on the evidence of secondary exposure just as the current bans have. I don't know what the evidence is for needing to ban smoking in city centres but would support it if there is evidence of harm.

[ad_orientem]

Any ban on smoking in the open air is a ban too far. I do miss going into a pub and being able to smoke whilst drinking.

[Maeght]

Any ban on smoking in the open air is a ban too far. I do miss going into a pub and being able to smoke whilst drinking.

That's sad for you, but any bans should be based on a risk assessment and evidence not opinion.

[Roses]

Smoking should be banned in ALL public places in my opinion.

[Aruntraveller]

Smoking should be banned in ALL public places in my opinion.

Can you define public just so we know what places you are talking about?

[Rhiannon]

I think a smoking room should be allowed in a pub - an adult space. I'm not convinced that staff are at any more risk from breathing in air in a smoking room (especially one that is vented - maybe an extractor fan?) than they are from the air they breathe stick in traffic driving to work. If we are going to talk about toxins in the workplace then just as bad are the chemicals use to make fabric fire retardant and in paints, MDF, particle board, stain retardants, etc - heck, even easy iron shirts are stiff with formaldehyde.

I don't think smoking should be allowed in family spaces (restaurants and cafes for example - I remember when I was pregnant going into a cafe and a woman at the next table chainsmoking and blowing fag smoke my way) or where food is served - I love being able to eat out and not get smoked.

I agree completely with Blue about smokers waving their fags around too close to babies in buggies. I don't think that is reason enough to ban smoking on the street though.

[Roses]

Can you define public just so we know what places you are talking about?

Everywhere to which the general public has access.

[bluehillside Retd.]

LR,

Everywhere to which the general public has access.

At the top of Ben Nevis for example?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Incidentally, I think I'm right in saying that smoking in cars with children in them is now banned. A few years back when I dropped my children at primary school there always seemed to be a car opposite with two kids in the back, the windows closed and the driver (presumably mum) in the front chain smoking until the school bell went. You could even see the clouds of smoke in the air when she opened the door.

I remember being appalled, and wondering whether to say something. Being British of course I never did, but I still wonder sometimes whether I should have done. 

[Roses]

LR,

At the top of Ben Nevis for example?

Of course.

[bluehillside Retd.]

LR,

Of course.

Blimey.

[Rhiannon]

Of course.

What if I stand in my garden by my front gate and blow smoke over you as you walk past?

[Rhiannon]

LR,

Blimey.

I think you'll find that smokers are mindless scum.

[Anchorman]

LR,

At the top of Ben Nevis for example?

Yep. There's enough rubbish left at the summit without more pollutants adding to it.

[Enki]

I think a smoking room should be allowed in a pub - an adult space. I'm not convinced that staff are at any more risk from breathing in air in a smoking room (especially one that is vented - maybe an extractor fan?) than they are from the air they breathe stick in traffic driving to work. If we are going to talk about toxins in the workplace then just as bad are the chemicals use to make fabric fire retardant and in paints, MDF, particle board, stain retardants, etc - heck, even easy iron shirts are stiff with formaldehyde.

I don't think smoking should be allowed in family spaces (restaurants and cafes for example - I remember when I was pregnant going into a cafe and a woman at the next table chainsmoking and blowing fag smoke my way) or where food is served - I love being able to eat out and not get smoked.

I agree completely with Blue about smokers waving their fags around too close to babies in buggies. I don't think that is reason enough to ban smoking on the street though.

As a former smoker, and now  a confirmed vaper, I agree with you Rhi.  I think your approach is sensible and well balanced.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Rhi,

I think you'll find that smokers are mindless scum.

Ah, that must be it then.

I have to say that I hate bloody smoking when it's around me and mine, but I'm also a libertarian at heart. If people want to smoke in environments that don't affect others, that's no-one's business but their own. As I mentioned before, exiting the gene pool before they need expensive geriatric care probably does society more good than harm in any case.   

[Roses]

As we know how much harm smoking can do to both smokers and non smokers, I am of the opinion those who smoke should find it increasingly hard to find a place where they can indulge in that unpleasant habit.

[Nearly Sane]

As we know how much harm smoking can do to both smokers and non smokers, I am of they opinion those who smoke should find it increasingly hard to find a place where they can indulge in that unpleasant habit.

Can you cite a study that shows smoking in open places is harmful to non smokers?

[Nearly Sane]

Yep. There's enough rubbish left at the summit without more pollutants adding to it.

People smoking don't have to leave any rubbish. That others leave sweetie wrappers is irrelevant to the question of smoking.

[Roses]

Can you cite a study that shows smoking in open places is harmful to non smokers?

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/may9/smoking-050907.html

[Rhiannon]

Rhi,

Ah, that must be it then.

I have to say that I hate bloody smoking when it's around me and mine, but I'm also a libertarian at heart. If people want to smoke in environments that don't affect others, that's no-one's business but their own. As I mentioned before, exiting the gene pool before they need expensive geriatric care probably does society more good than harm in any case.

I stopped smoking when I was 18 so in a sense I don't really give a toss. But I have friends who smoke and I have dated someone who smokes. Not even being able to stand outside a pub having a smoke or to slip outside in the night for a puff when staying in a hotel would not only have a severe impact on their ability to socialise, but also on mine.

[Rhiannon]

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/may9/smoking-050907.html

Are you calling for a ban on cars and planes? Woodburning stoves?

[Nearly Sane]

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2007/may9/smoking-050907.html

Thanks. So if you sit next continually to a smoker you inhale some of the cigarettes. Where does it show that people smoking are substantially increasing background pollution. When you drive your car, and pollute the air you are saying that you shouldn't do that?