Smoking and anti-smoking

[jeremyp]

I think it crazy that smoking isn't allowed in pubs. At the same time I think we have out attitude to drinking distinctly skewed. It's ok to both drink in public and be drunk in public, but if I had the choice between sitting next to a table of smokers or a table of drunks give me the smokers any day - even more so if I'm just walking around town, smokers will leave me alone, a drunk might not. With drinking it's not just physical harm but harassment. But try to talk about restrictions and all you get is, 'but Jacintha and I want to have a glass of fizz with our picnic'...

That's a false equivalence. If you sit next to a table of people having a drink, your health is not threatened unless they really do overindulge. This is not the case with smokers. In fact, just being in the same room as somebody smoking puts you in danger.

[bluehillside Retd.]

eremy,

That's a false equivalence. If you sit next to a table of people having a drink, your health is not threatened unless they really do overindulge. This is not the case with smokers. In fact, just being in the same room as somebody smoking puts you in danger.

I once heard someone describe a smoking area in a pub as akin to a peeing area in a swimming pool.

[Nearly Sane]

That's a false equivalence. If you sit next to a table of people having a drink, your health is not threatened unless they really do overindulge. This is not the case with smokers. In fact, just being in the same room as somebody smoking puts you in danger.

As a consequence of non intentional ideas, maybe. But how many people are harmed by the actions of someone drinking?

[Rhiannon]

That's a false equivalence. If you sit next to a table of people having a drink, your health is not threatened unless they really do overindulge. This is not the case with smokers. In fact, just being in the same room as somebody smoking puts you in danger.

No, you don't know how much someone needs to drink before they turn into a harassing, boorish bully, and you don't need too be on the receiving end of it to find it upsetting. An increase in stress and anxiety is a threat to my health and I take it every bit as seriously as a threat to my physical health.

[jeremyp]

As a consequence of non intentional ideas, maybe. But how many people are harmed by the actions of someone drinking?

Fewer than would be harmed by the same person smoking. Right now, I am sitting in a Premier Inn restaurant waiting for some food and somebody has just delivered a pint to my table. I will drink it, eat my food and then retire to my room. Nobody will have been harmed by my actions.

On the other hand, were I to light a cigarette (obviously that is illegal now), my fellow diners will have their experience degraded by the smoke and will have their lives shortened by some (admittedly quite small) amount.

[jeremyp]

No, you don't know how much someone needs to drink before they turn into a harassing, boorish bully, and you don't need too be on the receiving end of it to find it upsetting. An increase in stress and anxiety is a threat to my health and I take it every bit as seriously as a threat to my physical health.

Well, in my experience, it’s more than one beer, but only one person smoking one cigarette can be detrimental to your health.

Excessive consumption of alcohol is a pretty big problem but to suggest cigarette smoking shouldn’t be controlled because of that is whataboutism.

[bluehillside Retd.]

jeremy,

Right now, I am sitting in a Premier Inn restaurant...

You big shot you...

[jeremyp]

jeremy,

You big shot you...

Indeed. The budget is such that I don’t need to go for a Travelodge.

[bluehillside Retd.]

jeremy,

Indeed. The budget is such that I don’t need to go for a Travelodge.

The last time I stayed in a Premier Inn a very pretty maid knocked on my door and asked whether she could turn down my bed.

"Why not" I thought, "every other woman does..." 

[Nearly Sane]

Fewer than would be harmed by the same person smoking. Right now, I am sitting in a Premier Inn restaurant waiting for some food and somebody has just delivered a pint to my table. I will drink it, eat my food and then retire to my room. Nobody will have been harmed by my actions.

On the other hand, were I to light a cigarette (obviously that is illegal now), my fellow diners will have their experience degraded by the smoke and will have their lives shortened by some (admittedly quite small) amount.

Been there but not seeing the relevance.

[Steve H]

That's a false equivalence. If you sit next to a table of people having a drink, your health is not threatened unless they really do overindulge. This is not the case with smokers. In fact, just being in the same room as somebody smoking puts you in danger.

That is a fair point, and is why even I accept that it should be restricted in public.

[Steve H]

Apparently my maternal grandfather was a pipe smoker, he died at the young age of nearly 53 due to problems with his lungs.

Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. He may have had the lung problem in any case.

[Steve H]

I thought pipe smokers didn't inhale. We'll have to ask Steve as he's the only active pipe smoker here as far as I know. Both of my grandfathers and an uncle smoked a pipe and lived to ripe old ages, one cousin of my mother in Filey whom I saw this year (the cousin) does. He's old and sprightly. Cigarettes are the worst thing, smokers take it all down into lungs and clog up the cilia which causes all sorts of problems if they're heavy smokers. There are people who smoke one or two fags a day or occasionally after a meal (a friend does that) which doesn't hurt.

You're not supposed to inhale pipes of cigars (or rather the smoke from them, ho ho ho), and most don't, but some do. I don't. Most pipe tobacco is strong enough to make your head explode if you do inhale it. I remember aged about 15 trying a cigar for the first time at a friend's house. I didn't know you weren't meant to inhale, and spent about 15 minutes throwing up down the bog afterwards.

[Steve H]

Rhi,

To be fair I know for certain that smoking killed my uncle. He was run over by a Benson & Hedges lorry...

[Steve H]

jeremy,

The last time I stayed in a Premier Inn a very pretty maid knocked on my door and asked whether she could turn down my bed.

"Why not" I thought, "every other woman does..." 

When I stayed at a Premier Inn, a maid arrived with tea on a tray, set it down on the bedside cabinet, and gave me a blow job. Apparently, they provide a gobblin' teasmaid in every room.
Go on, then, mods - delete it.

[Rhiannon]

Well, in my experience, it’s more than one beer, but only one person smoking one cigarette can be detrimental to your health.

Excessive consumption of alcohol is a pretty big problem but to suggest cigarette smoking shouldn’t be controlled because of that is whataboutism.

That wasn't really my point. I agree that smoking should be controlled, but in an adult only space (a pub or bar) I don't see the problem with a smoking room. My point about alcohol wasn't whataboutery but was trying to point out how muddled our thinking is around this, or at least the thinking of the authorities is.

[Aruntraveller]

When I stayed at a Premier Inn, a maid arrived with tea on a tray, set it down on the bedside cabinet, and gave me a blow job. Apparently, they provide a gobblin' teasmaid in every room.
Go on, then, mods - delete it.

The only reason I can think of to delete it is that I've heard it before. As others may have missed it I think it can safely stand. 

That and the fact that I've always had a sense of humour that leaned towards filth.

[Steve H]

Oh good!

[Maeght]

The smoking ban in pubs is to do with the H&S legislation relating to the employees working in the pub. It is evidence based and is correct according to the law. The pleasant consequence for me is that if I go into a pub I don't get exposed to the smoke.

Every possible way of reducing air pollution should be enacted so if there is evidence that smoking in public contributes to air pollution and health risks then it should be enacted. Just because other forms of pollution are harder to reduce doesn't mean we shouldn't both with smoking if there is evidence to support the ban.

[Harrowby Hall]

That wasn't really my point. I agree that smoking should be controlled, but in an adult only space (a pub or bar) I don't see the problem with a smoking room. My point about alcohol wasn't whataboutery but was trying to point out how muddled our thinking is around this, or at least the thinking of the authorities is.

Pubs are no longer adult spaces. Pubs are places where families go.

Following the edict from the Thatcher government that the concept of the tied house was anti-competitive, the public house has changed. Where once it was an establishment whose primary purpose was to ensure constant cash flow for the owning brewery it became a cost and profit centre for a property company. The majority of pubs are no longer drinking dens reeking of feral masculinity but family-friendly restaurants.

As for smoking in pubs, along with a significant number of my acquaintances, I did not visit pubs frequently. I found that the foul air (accompanied by yellowed ceilings) disgusting. I now regularly eat and drink in pubs - and enjoy the experience. There is a lingering mythology that the decline of the pub was a consequence of banning smoking. This is not the case. It was Margaret Thatcher's ideological interference in a milieu she did not understand that was responsible. (She never demanded that Marks & Spencer had to stock brands other than its own ...)

[Rhiannon]

Pubs are no longer adult spaces. Pubs are places where families go.

Following the edict from the Thatcher government that the concept of the tied house was anti-competitive, the public house has changed. Where once it was an establishment whose primary purpose was to ensure constant cash flow for the owning brewery it became a cost and profit centre for a property company. The majority of pubs are no longer drinking dens reeking of feral masculinity but family-friendly restaurants.

As for smoking in pubs, along with a significant number of my acquaintances, I did not visit pubs frequently. I found that the foul air (accompanied by yellowed ceilings) disgusting. I now regularly eat and drink in pubs - and enjoy the experience. There is a lingering mythology that the decline of the pub was a consequence of banning smoking. This is not the case. It was Margaret Thatcher's ideological interference in a milieu she did not understand that was responsible. (She never demanded that Marks & Spencer had to stock brands other than its own ...)

I did differentiate between family spaces where food is served and a proper boozer. Both exist around here. There are family friendly pubs, and there are pubs you would never take kids to.

[jeremyp]

Been there but not seeing the relevance.

Try reading the posts leading up to it.

[jeremyp]

in an adult only space (a pub or bar) I don't see the problem with a smoking room.

Because pub employees have to go in there to clean the room. The smoking ban is about providing a safe working environment as much as anything.

[Roses]

Because pub employees have to go in there to clean the room. The smoking ban is about providing a safe working environment as much as anything.

I agree, it is unfair to endanger others. Our middle daughter has asthma, a smokey environment makes her wheeze.

[Steve H]

I agree, it is unfair to endanger others. Our middle daughter has asthma, a smokey environment makes her wheeze.

I assume your daughter isn't a barmaid, so what's the problem?