Author Topic: Just like Jesus  (Read 2955 times)

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #125 on: February 09, 2019, 08:20:17 AM »
No one should lose their job because of a speeding ticket.
Really - even someone whose job involves driving?

But on the case in point the speeding wasn't the issue - it was perverting the course of justice which was the serious charge.

Littleroses

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #126 on: February 09, 2019, 08:30:40 AM »
Really - even someone whose job involves driving?

But on the case in point the speeding wasn't the issue - it was perverting the course of justice which was the serious charge.

And she deserved her punishment, imo.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #127 on: February 09, 2019, 08:43:30 AM »
And she deserved her punishment, imo.
I agree.

The question (I guess) isn't about service her sentence but the effect on her position as an MP. As far as I'm aware as her sentence is less than 1 year she isn't obliged to stand-down, although her constituents can raise a trigger petition that could trigger a by-election. However that cannot happen until her right to appeal has been exhausted.

Littleroses

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #128 on: February 09, 2019, 11:31:12 AM »
I agree.

The question (I guess) isn't about service her sentence but the effect on her position as an MP. As far as I'm aware as her sentence is less than 1 year she isn't obliged to stand-down, although her constituents can raise a trigger petition that could trigger a by-election. However that cannot happen until her right to appeal has been exhausted.


Surely anyone who is sent down, for however long, shouldn't be permitted to serve as an MP.   

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #129 on: February 09, 2019, 01:02:11 PM »

Surely anyone who is sent down, for however long, shouldn't be permitted to serve as an MP.   
That's what the law currently says.

I think the argument is that an MP is accountable to their electorate in terms of their 'job' and therefore, within limits, it is only the electorate who can kick them out rather than them being sacked for an offence.

jeremyp

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #130 on: February 10, 2019, 10:05:00 AM »
Not really fair, Jeremyp,

The 12 month prison sentence would only come if you did what she did.
Why and how can you deny a speeding ticket. Different horses for different courses.   Who made the laws?  Well it wasn't us.  But she should not try and pervert the course of Justice. 
No one should lose their job because of a speeding ticket. Sometimes mercy needs to be shown hardly a massive crime a speeding ticket.  The MP's get away with fraud on a regular basis when they complete their expense sheet. Can they point the finger over a speeding ticket denial?
She didn’t get put in prison for a speeding ticket, she got put in prison for perverting the course of justice, which is a serious offense, much more serious than the one she was trying to avoid.
 
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #131 on: March 05, 2019, 07:13:15 PM »
Interesting that even with both main parties in the constituency wanting a recall it may not happe



https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/03/why-election-peterborough-still-not-certain

jeremyp

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #132 on: March 05, 2019, 08:20:16 PM »
Interesting that even with both main parties in the constituency wanting a recall it may not happe



https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/03/why-election-peterborough-still-not-certain
It comes as news to me that there even is a recall process. 

Having said that, what the political parties think is largely irrelevant.  Onasanya Was appointed to her job by the constituents, not either party. It is for them and them only to decide on whether a recall should happen.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #133 on: March 05, 2019, 08:29:02 PM »
It comes as news to me that there even is a recall process. 

Having said that, what the political parties think is largely irrelevant.  Onasanya Was appointed to her job by the constituents, not either party. It is for them and them only to decide on whether a recall should happen.
But it illustrates the difficulties that any recall might face.

jeremyp

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #134 on: March 05, 2019, 08:44:31 PM »
But it illustrates the difficulties that any recall might face.
I agree, but it shouldn't be possible to get a recall at the drop of a hat. Whilst it should be possible to recall her, it shouldn't be so easy that she has to spend the entire time fighting recall elections.

Having said the above, were I her constituent, I would sign a petition for a recall: I don't think somebody who has been found guilty of perverting the course of justice should be part of the law making process.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #135 on: March 05, 2019, 08:54:41 PM »
I agree, but it shouldn't be possible to get a recall at the drop of a hat. Whilst it should be possible to recall her, it shouldn't be so easy that she has to spend the entire time fighting recall elections.

Having said the above, were I her constituent, I would sign a petition for a recall: I don't think somebody who has been found guilty of perverting the course of justice should be part of the law making process.
Yep, agree. The question is the balance. And agree I would sign as well.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #136 on: March 06, 2019, 08:15:17 AM »
It comes as news to me that there even is a recall process. 

Was not this a consequence of the coalition government? Along with fixed-term parliaments?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #137 on: March 06, 2019, 09:26:53 AM »

jeremyp

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #138 on: March 12, 2019, 10:30:18 AM »
Some details on the procedure

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/insights/the-first-use-of-a-recall-petition-in-the-uk/

That answers, in part, my concern about people having to fight recall elections all the time. However, I am disappointed that somebody can only be recalled for breaking the law/rules. I would like it to be possible to recall an MP who breaks promises made during their election campaign. Foe example, if an MP promised to support Brexit during the election campaign, it should be possible to recall them if they consistently vote to thwart it in Parliament.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #139 on: March 12, 2019, 02:09:33 PM »
That answers, in part, my concern about people having to fight recall elections all the time. However, I am disappointed that somebody can only be recalled for breaking the law/rules. I would like it to be possible to recall an MP who breaks promises made during their election campaign. Foe example, if an MP promised to support Brexit during the election campaign, it should be possible to recall them if they consistently vote to thwart it in Parliament.

Constitutionally, Members of Parliament are representatives not delegates. They owe their constituents their considered judgement not their slavish obedience.

And they represent all of their constituents - not just the ones who voted for them.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 02:18:14 PM by Harrowby Hall »
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jeremyp

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #140 on: March 12, 2019, 07:20:27 PM »
Constitutionally, Members of Parliament are representatives not delegates. They owe their constituents their considered judgement not their slavish obedience.

And they represent all of their constituents - not just the ones who voted for them.
And what’s your point?

They stand for an election on a platform. If their later actions contradict that platform, why shouldn’t they be called on to justify them?
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #141 on: March 12, 2019, 07:39:34 PM »
...  If their later actions contradict that platform, why shouldn’t they be called on to justify them?

Where have I said they shouldn't justify their decisions?
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jeremyp

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #142 on: May 01, 2019, 07:32:28 PM »
Fiona Onasanya is subject to a recall election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48123355

Effectively, this means she has been sacked. She has already been expelled by the Labour Party, so if she stands in the by-election, it must be as an independent and must have little chance of winning. 
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #143 on: May 02, 2019, 07:17:31 AM »
Have to admit that I am amazed that they got the numbers.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #144 on: May 02, 2019, 07:43:32 AM »
Have to admit that I am amazed that they got the numbers.
I'm not - her case got a huge amount of publicity and it is a marginal seat so both Labour and the Tories will have been pushing people to sign the petition (noting that she'd been thrown out of the Labour party so they'll want the chance to win the seat again as much as the Tories).

Interesting to see what will happen in Brecon & Radnorshire - Chris Davies case having received much less publicity and where he remains a Tory MP, so that party is unlikely to be campaigning for people to sign the petition. There is also the issue of geography - the constituency is huge but people have to sign in person and there are only 6 places where they can do so.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #145 on: May 02, 2019, 09:10:31 AM »
Even with people being encouraged, I'm amazed they got 27% of the electorate to actively do something. Interesting point about geography - some MPs are safer from recall than others.

Udayana

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #146 on: May 02, 2019, 09:24:54 AM »
You can always find people to put the boot in - travelling specifaclly to do would be a deterrent though.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

jeremyp

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2019, 09:25:56 AM »
You can always find people to put the boot in - travelling specifaclly to do would be a deterrent though.
More than a quarter of the electorate wanted "to put the boot in"?

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Udayana

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2019, 09:54:14 AM »
People do act when asked to do so on something they have already made up their mind on.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Just like Jesus
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2019, 10:05:21 AM »
More than a quarter of the electorate wanted "to put the boot in"?
I think this is actually pretty positive for democracy. Also don't forget that she can stand in the by-election, so were there sufficient of the just under three quarters who didn't sign the petition prepared to vote for her she'd be re-elected. That said I very much doubt that is going to happen in this case.