Author Topic: Shamima Begum  (Read 18759 times)

wigginhall

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2019, 02:21:38 PM »
   





Hmmmm.....
I've never read thast version of Christ's words in Matthew 25.
Does He say
"When I was a stranger, you told me to get lost."
Or elsewhere
"Love your enemies from a distance by doing nothing to help them?"

I'm afraid that love your enemies is snowflake Christianity.   See instead the well 'ard version, kick your enemies out, and lock the door, as Jesus often said.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

torridon

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2019, 03:06:17 PM »
 ;D ;D

Roses

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2019, 03:17:39 PM »
No one would be loving Begum if she came back to this country and committed an act of terrorism, which is not beyond the realms of possibility.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Robbie

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2019, 03:26:06 PM »
Yes, I would be prepared to monitor and care for Shamima Begum, with help of course. No-one could be expected to be responsible for her on their own.  I'd do the best I could and hope it works.  It has worked with others, including a man who became a journalist.
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torridon

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2019, 03:33:45 PM »
No one would be loving Begum if she came back to this country and committed an act of terrorism, which is not beyond the realms of possibility.

Understand that, clearly.  On the other hand, it was largely christians of the Victorian age who initiated concepts of penal reform and prisoner rehabilitation.  Ad-O doesn't seem to have come across christian teaching yet, surprising for someone who claims affiliation with a church.  Still in the 'lock-em up and throw away the key' mindset.  Insightful, not.  Compassionate, not. Baffling to me.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 03:36:01 PM by torridon »

wigginhall

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2019, 03:34:31 PM »
It baffles me that Begum has been picked on.  She did a stupid interview of course.  But hundreds have returned from Syria, some rehabilitated, some prosecuted, she would be heavily interrogated, of course.  It seems a wacky idea to me that she would return with a new baby, and do some terrorist act.  She would never see the child again.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Roses

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2019, 03:38:37 PM »
If Begum showed some remorse for her stupidity in joining ISIS it would be a different story, but she seemed proud to be one of their number. I do think her child should be removed from her, so she can't indoctrinate it with their poisonous take on Islam.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

wigginhall

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #82 on: February 17, 2019, 03:41:14 PM »
Hard-hearted Hannah.   It's Trump who separates mothers and children.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

torridon

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #83 on: February 17, 2019, 03:42:32 PM »
If Begum showed some remorse for her stupidity in joining ISIS it would be a different story, but she seemed proud to be one of their number. I do think her child should be removed from her, so she can't indoctrinate it with their poisonous take on Islam.

I think we all do stupid things as youngsters.  As we grow older, we gain in wisdom and experience.  This girl is still only a teenager and she's messed up real bad.  Really bad. She needs help to get back on track.

Roses

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #84 on: February 17, 2019, 03:46:19 PM »
I think we all do stupid things as youngsters.  As we grow older, we gain in wisdom and experience.  This girl is still only a teenager and she's messed up real bad.  Really bad. She needs help to get back on track.

Begum is an adult not a child and has to take absolute responsibility for her actions.
 
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

wigginhall

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2019, 03:48:18 PM »
All these punitive comments make me feel ill, I need a break from it.  Such cruelty, I suppose this is now part of British values.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Roses

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #86 on: February 17, 2019, 03:53:14 PM »
All these punitive comments make me feel ill, I need a break from it.  Such cruelty, I suppose this is now part of British values.


Maybe you should spare a thought for all the men, women and children who have been murder by the murderous ISIS mob, before feeling too sorry for their followers! 
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

ad_orientem

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #87 on: February 17, 2019, 03:54:45 PM »
Understand that, clearly.  On the other hand, it was largely christians of the Victorian age who initiated concepts of penal reform and prisoner rehabilitation.  Ad-O doesn't seem to have come across christian teaching yet, surprising for someone who claims affiliation with a church.  Still in the 'lock-em up and throw away the key' mindset.  Insightful, not.  Compassionate, not. Baffling to me.

I do not belong in the lock em up and throw away the key camp, except for nonces and terrorists of course.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #88 on: February 17, 2019, 03:55:22 PM »

Maybe you should spare a thought for all the men, women and children who have been murder by the murderous ISIS mob, before feeling too sorry for their followers!

Exactly.
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Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

torridon

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #89 on: February 17, 2019, 03:56:07 PM »
Begum is an adult not a child and has to take absolute responsibility for her actions.

I don't think there is any such thing as 'absolute' responsibility, in reality.  Nobody is free from influences.  If someone commits a crime because they have been radicalised, does the radicaliser not bear any of the responsibility ?  This is why we have concepts such as 'diminished responsibility' and 'mitigating circumstances'.   If we fail to take account of all relevant factors, then we are being merely blind and judgemental when we could do so much better than that.

wigginhall

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #90 on: February 17, 2019, 03:57:26 PM »

Maybe you should spare a thought for all the men, women and children who have been murder by the murderous ISIS mob, before feeling too sorry for their followers!

I am feeling sorry for myself, as too much exposure to your and Ad-o's views makes me feel ill.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

torridon

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #91 on: February 17, 2019, 03:57:35 PM »
I do not belong in the lock em up and throw away the key camp, except for nonces and terrorists of course.

So, cherry picking when you want to be a christian then, and not when it doesn't suit.  You're a complete fake.

torridon

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #92 on: February 17, 2019, 03:59:03 PM »

Maybe you should spare a thought for all the men, women and children who have been murder by the murderous ISIS mob, before feeling too sorry for their followers!

It is not an either/or situation.

ad_orientem

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #93 on: February 17, 2019, 04:04:16 PM »
So, cherry picking when you want to be a christian then, and not when it doesn't suit.  You're a complete fake.

Christianity doesn't teach that our actions have no repecussions.
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wigginhall

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #94 on: February 17, 2019, 04:06:34 PM »
Christianity doesn't teach that our actions have no repecussions.

Don't start talking about Christian teaching, FFS.
They were the footprints of a gigantic hound!

Roses

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2019, 04:06:48 PM »
I am feeling sorry for myself, as too much exposure to your and Ad-o's views makes me feel ill.


 You would feel even worse if Begum or her mob murdered a member of your family! >:(
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ad_orientem

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #96 on: February 17, 2019, 04:11:22 PM »
Don't start talking about Christian teaching, FFS.

You're a bore. Go away.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Anchorman

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #97 on: February 17, 2019, 07:10:31 PM »

Maybe you should spare a thought for all the men, women and children who have been murder by the murderous ISIS mob, before feeling too sorry for their followers! 

Or indeed tyhose Iraqi, Syrian, Afghanisetc, murdered by british bombsand missilestrikes?
Death isdeath; just because people ina niceuniform with nice glossy planes caused it does not mean weshould forget the dead.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #98 on: February 19, 2019, 07:17:57 PM »
If there was a good reason to do this, why not before? Oh right because it's now a headline in the Tory leadership contest.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47299907

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Shamima Begum
« Reply #99 on: February 19, 2019, 08:36:08 PM »
Hard-hearted Hannah.   It's Trump who separates mothers and children.
I see where you are coming from, I do. But sometimes, unfortunately a choice has to be made between the interests of the mother and the interests of the child - it's impossible to make it painless for both. I could well be completely wrong, but if I had to make a decision on the matter on whose welfare takes precedence, I would argue that by prioritising the mother, it might unintentionally lack compassion for the child.

If the mother's right to human compassion results in a child being brought up to not integrate because his mother feels so little connection and human empathy for the victims of bombings in the country she and her child are aiming to live in, I think that is throwing the child under a bus. Some separation might be best for the child to have a fighting chance to feel a valued part of the country he is growing up in rather than an outsider, who distrusts the motives and values of those around him, believes the worst of them, and feels isolated.

I feel bad for the women and children being bombed everywhere - it's not difficult to feel bad for them - and maybe Shamima Begum does too and just gave a clumsy interview using the word "retaliation" to describe the ISIS attack on children at a concert without adding the phrase "it doesn't justify what ISIS did and lashing out in revenge, while a human reaction, aren't the values that I aspire to." 
Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

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