Shamima Begum

[Roses]

The problem with Begum is that her mind has been so radicalised, she is likely to be a danger to British society if permitted to return to the UK. I very much doubt she can be helped.

[Steve H]

The problem with Begum is that her mind has been so radicalised, she is likely to be a danger to British society if permitted to return to the UK. I very much doubt she can be helped.

Evidence? Thought not.

[Robbie]

Going against grain but I think she can be rehabilitated. She was 15 when she was radicalised and tstill only 20-21 having been through more than most do in fifty years. It would be the humane thing to do to help her & if she'd been involved in anything else, most people would want to.

[Nearly Sane]

Going against grain but I think she can be rehabilitated. She was 15 when she was radicalised and tstill only 20-21 having been through more than most do in fifty years. It would be the humane thing to do to help her & if she'd been involved in anything else, most people would want to.

Agree

[ippy]

Going against grain but I think she can be rehabilitated. She was 15 when she was radicalised and tstill only 20-21 having been through more than most do in fifty years. It would be the humane thing to do to help her & if she'd been involved in anything else, most people would want to.

Say we do have her back, from what I've heard these people are a lost cause, where you would like to think they can be reformed, the odds I have read and heard about are so slanted against any betterment in the way these people think, I don't think it's worth taking the all too realistic dangerous risk to all of us they present.

The odds on anything happening to you Robbie if we were to bring her back to the UK, must be very minimal as it would more than likely be for me too but what would you have to say to anyone here that likely suffered as a result of reinstating her here in the UK?

It is a hard lesson for the woman but I think a necessary one that also gives a loud signal to anyone else that has similar ideas, let's face it Isis isn't exactly one of the most friendly of ideologies, burning people alive in a cage etc.

Regards, ippy.

[Nearly Sane]

It could of course be an entirely counterproductive message to give. If it creates more people willing to act for the extremists, what would you have to say to anyone that suffered because of thar, ippy?

[Roses]

Say we do have her back, from what I've heard these people are a lost cause, where you would like to think they can be reformed, the odds I have read and heard about are so slanted against any betterment in the way these people think, I don't think it's worth taking the all too realistic dangerous risk to all of us they present.

The odds on anything happening to you Robbie if we were to bring her back to the UK, must be very minimal as it would more than likely be for me too but what would you have to say to anyone here that likely suffered as a result of reinstating her here in the UK?

It is a hard lesson for the woman but I think a necessary one that also gives a loud signal to anyone else that has similar ideas, let's face it Isis isn't exactly one of the most friendly of ideologies, burning people alive in a cage etc.

Regards, ippy.

I agree with you, I doubt the woman can be rehabilitated, she might pretend to be, before committing an act of terrorism.

[ippy]

It could of course be an entirely counterproductive message to give. If it creates more people willing to act for the extremists, what would you have to say to anyone that suffered because of thar, ippy?

Of course it could but I know what I would prefer and it wouldn't make life any easier for these Isis minded people.

While this known Isis supporter isn't here she is unable to convey her ideas to anyone else.

I don't think not trying is a good idea, the surveys I have seen telling us the percentages of people that are resident in the UK that  supposedly sympathise with Isis ideas don't exactly encourage optimism.

Let's hope the BBC's continual pushing out the equivalent of 'Brave New World's Soma' to the population will get to the Isis sympathisers in the end, who knows?

ippy.

[ippy]

I agree with you, I doubt the woman can be rehabilitated, she might pretend to be, before committing an act of terrorism.

From what I hear about these people where you've accurately described their mantra there's so much in these religions that's so reprehensible just as you have described only one aspect of in your post L R.

Regards, ippy.

[Robbie]

There have been quite a few young ex-Jihadists who have been de-radicalised here, in the USA and Denmark, probably elsewhere. If you do a search you will find them, I've only read a couple.

Shamima Begum was a groomed schoolgirl. Do we not show compassion to people who commit crimes as a result of being groomed, especially the young? I don't know what 'heinous acts' Shamima Begum committed apart from supporting those who did - and that didn't last. She gave birth to three children which would have taken up a lot of her time and energy.

I can't write off a 20 year old girl. She needs help. If I had the necessary training and experience I would help her but that's hypothetical because I'm not equipped to do so. However there are those who are.

Harrowby posted about BBC4's 'Guest House for Young Widows' which is worth listening to.

I do understand the opinions expressed last year by Gabriella, this is not a black and white issue but it's one that affects all of us.

[Udayana]

If she is liable to to perpetrate acts of terrorism, it makes much more sense to have her here in prison or other managed environment than out free to inflict them elsewhere.

In any case why would we want the UK to support environments where people can be brainwashed and then export them along with death and misery around the world?
 

[Robbie]

That's an excellent point & something that would stare all of us in the face if we opened our eyes to see it.
(Since posting my last effort I've been wracking my brains to think of ways in which I could actively help rather than just talking about it. I don't just exist in my own 'yard' & am open to possibilities.)

[ippy]

If she is liable to to perpetrate acts of terrorism, it makes much more sense to have her here in prison or other managed environment than out free to inflict them elsewhere.

In any case why would we want the UK to support environments where people can be brainwashed and then export them along with death and misery around the world?

I'll go along with you Ydayana, we need to be looking out for our fellow citizens first and in this case although I'm all for compassion wherever it can be applied but in this case there are times when compassion should be taking the back seat.

ippy.

[Harrowby Hall]

One thing that is clear about Shamima Begum is that the police or the security services (or both) failed big time in her case. They were aware of her intentions and just let her carry them out. Her parents were not given any information about her intentions - they could have prevented her having access to her passport. Airport and airline authorities were not informed that that Shamima Begum and other teenage girls were likely to try to leave the country.

As Robbie has said, Shamima Begum gave birth to three children. Each was conceived because her role within ISIS was to have coitus with whichever "husband" had been assigned to her and to bear his offspring. When a "husband" was killed she was provided with another. All three children died.

I think it is quite likely that were she presented with supportive assistance for her to evaluate the propaganda that had been fed to her she might - aided by her own experience of the reality of ISIS - be able to re-orient her life, perhaps continue with her education and become a responsible citizen. Just writing her off suggests that our society is little better than the one which abused her.

[Robbie]

I agree with you Harrowby. There are people who have done far worse than this girl who are cared for, rehabilitated and have their names changed. She has suffered enough for her mistake - which she made aged 15.

Ippy: "we need to be looking out for our fellow citizens first".

She is a fellow citizen.

[Roses]

I agree with you Harrowby. There are people who have done far worse than this girl who are cared for, rehabilitated and have their names changed. She has suffered enough for her mistake - which she made aged 15.

Ippy: "we need to be looking out for our fellow citizens first".

She is a fellow citizen.

I thought that woman's citizenship had been removed?

[Steve H]

Luke 10:25-37.

[ippy]

I agree with you Harrowby. There are people who have done far worse than this girl who are cared for, rehabilitated and have their names changed. She has suffered enough for her mistake - which she made aged 15.

Ippy: "we need to be looking out for our fellow citizens first".

She is a fellow citizen.

L R is right and I think she elected herself out of the UK the day she made the decision to opt out of trying to behave in as near to being a civilised person as she could in the way most of us do.

Regards, ippy.

[ippy]

Luke 10:25-37.

So what!

Regards, ippy.

[Steve H]

So what!

Regards, ippy.

God, this forum pisses me off at times. I think I'll try taking a break, but it probably won't last long.

[Udayana]

L R is right and I think she elected herself out of the UK the day she made the decision to opt out of trying to behave in as near to being a civilised person as she could in the way most of us do.

Regards, ippy.

I think any 15yr old could have succumbed to ISIS propaganda in a similar way. The problem is that the apparently "civilised" people couldn't have cared or done less. 

I expect, given the chance, they would be happy to send all our criminals to Bangladesh to be hanged.

Similar to how, in other times, they were exported to America, Australia and Africa to destroy  civilize the native people there?
 
 

[Roses]

Begum is now a terrorist, and is unlikely to be deradicalized. If she was permitted to return to this country and committed an act of terrorism, people would be demanding to know why she was allowed to come back.

[Udayana]

Begum is now a terrorist, and is unlikely to be deradicalized. If she was permitted to return to this country and committed an act of terrorism, people would be demanding to know why she was allowed to come back.

Er .. how do you know she is unlikely to be deradicalised? And, if she is, why would you allow her to commit terrorism?

[ippy]

God, this forum pisses me off at times. I think I'll try taking a break, but it probably won't last long.

Why do believers in these various religions think quoting sections of 'their', in this case the bible, should be taken as somehow impressive?

I could understand the quoting of names and numbers for the various parts of this book if there were anything more than zero evidence to be found in support of the magical, mystical or superstitional based parts of this bronze age book.

Very clever book for the bronze age, I'll give it that.

ippy. 

[Roses]

Er .. how do you know she is unlikely to be deradicalised? And, if she is, why would you allow her to commit terrorism?

We can't take the risk, imo. Besides which, the UK has much more important things to be concerned about at present like the Coronavirus.