Shamima Begum

[Nearly Sane]

Begum has regrets that she is stuck in a camp and not permitted to come back to the UK, there doesn't seem any sign of her regretting leaving in the first place and joining ISIS. However, it doesn't look as if she will permitted to come back the the UK any time soon, if ever.

Except for the ruling from the Court of Appeal

[Gordon]

I'd say that her situation probably does require a proper review. I thought at the time that the decision to remove her UK citizenship was a knee-jerk political/populist reaction, and that the justification that she could have Bangladeshi citizenship was reaching.

She may well have a case to answer, and as this ruling indicates, her case should be heard.

[jeremyp]

Begum has regrets that she is stuck in a camp and not permitted to come back to the UK, there doesn't seem any sign of her regretting leaving in the first place and joining ISIS.

Your mind reading ability is impressive.

However, it doesn't look as if she will permitted to come back the the UK any time soon, if ever.

The government would have to be granted an appeal and win it to stop her from coming back to fight her case.

Theres no justification for leaving her stateless.

[Roses]

UK security comes first, if Begum comes back to the UK, still influenced by ISIS, she could commit an act of terrorism. If she does come back to have her case heard, she must be kept in a very secure unit.

[Nearly Sane]

UK security comes first, if Begum comes back to the UK, still influenced by ISIS, she could commit an act of terrorism. If she does come back to have her case heard, she must be kept in a very secure unit.

What crime(S) do you think she is accused of that would justify incarceration?

[Roses]

What crime(S) do you think she is accused of that would justify incarceration?

The fact that she is a member of ISIS, is more than enough justification, imo.

[Nearly Sane]

The fact that she is a member of ISIS, is more than enough justification, imo.

  So you want the legal process to be subverted because you write 'imo'?

[Roses]

People would be screaming blue murder if Begum is permitted to come back to the country and then commits an act of terrorism. As I said previously, if it is decided to let her back into the UK to state her case she must be kept firmly under lock and key.

[BeRational]

People would be screaming blue murder if Begum is permitted to come back to the country and then commits an act of terrorism. As I said previously, if it is decided to let her back into the UK to state her case she must be kept firmly under lock and key.

You're right they will, and some probably will if she does not.
I am torn but on balance thinks she should be allowed back.
She was 15, and a child when she left.

[jeremyp]

UK security comes first, if Begum comes back to the UK, still influenced by ISIS, she could commit an act of terrorism. If she does come back to have her case heard, she must be kept in a very secure unit.

do you know what acts of terrorism she has committed so far?

She had three children (all deceased).

This woman is not a danger.

[Roses]

do you know what acts of terrorism she has committed so far?

She had three children (all deceased).

This woman is not a danger.

You don't know that for a fact at all, she could be waiting to get back to the UK to commit an act of terrorism at the behest of her ISIS mentors.

[Nearly Sane]

You don't know that for a fact at all, she could be waiting to get back to the UK to commit an act of terrorism at the behest of her ISIS mentors.

So you want to get rid of the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

[Roses]

So you want to get rid of the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

As a member of ISIS she is guilty.

[BeRational]

So you want to get rid of the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

To be fair she is guilty of joining a terrorist group that was linked to lots of horrendous crimes.
She is not completely innocent,  but I think she was a child and not fully informed before she made her decision

[jeremyp]

You don't know that for a fact at all

I think I'm more likely to be right the you.

she could be waiting to get back to the UK to commit an act of terrorism at the behest of her ISIS mentors.

You don't know that for a fact at all.

[jeremyp]

As a member of ISIS she is guilty.

Not in the eyes of the law until she has stood trial.

[Nearly Sane]

To be fair she is guilty of joining a terrorist group that was linked to lots of horrendous crimes.
She is not completely innocent,  but I think she was a child and not fully informed before she made her decision

She then would have to be tried for any crimes, not just locked up on the basis of what she might do. The law works on an assumption of innocence but it doesn't declare people innocent (completely or otherwise) as regards crimes, it says they are not guilty,

[Nearly Sane]

As a member of ISIS she is guilty.

That isn't how the law works. You need to have a trial. You are getting rid of that process and therefore the idea of innocent till PROVEN guilty - you sound like Trump.

[Roses]

That isn't how the law works. You need to have a trial. You are getting rid of that process and therefore the idea of innocent till PROVEN guilty - you sound like Trump.

If she comes back to the UK to stand trial it is imperative she is kept in a secure unit until it takes place. As far as I am aware she has never voiced any regrets for her decision to join ISIS.

People who are sticking up for Begum might not be so forgiving if she commits an act of terrorism, which kills or maims one of their loved ones.

[Nearly Sane]

If she comes back to the UK to stand trial it is imperative she is kept in a secure unit until it takes place. As far as I am aware she has never voiced any regrets for her decision to join ISIS.

People who are sticking up for Begum might not be so forgiving if she commits an act of terrorism, which kills or maims one of their loved ones.

While currently the court has ruled that she should be brought back to appeal a ministerial decision about her citizenship status. It isn't clear that there is a criminal case to answer, If she comes back and there are no criminal charges, and it's the citizenship cases, then locking  her up would be an abuse of the criminal justice system.

I'm not sticking up for her, I'm sticking up for treating het with due legal process. People who want to subvert that because of their 'opinion' are very scary.

As the quote from A Man for All Seasons goes:

“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”

Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”

[jeremyp]

If she comes back to the UK to stand trial it is imperative she is kept in a secure unit until it takes place. As far as I am aware she has never voiced any regrets for her decision to join ISIS.

Nor has she voiced any desire to commit terrorist atrocities in the UK. Even in Syria, she did not, as far as I now, commit any atrocities, she just had babies for ISIS.

People who are sticking up for Begum might not be so forgiving if she commits an act of terrorism, which kills or maims one of their loved ones.

You could say that about anybody who goes on to commit a violent act. If you or a loved one ever gets into trouble with the law, you'll be very glad of the presumption of innocence and due process.

[Roses]

I have had my say and won't discuss it again, until we know what is going to happen next.

[Harrowby Hall]

I have had my say and won't discuss it again, until we know what is going to happen next.

It must be very comforting for you to be able to venture around the world with your mind firmly shut.

See if the radio adaptation of guest House for Young Widows is still available on BBC Sounds - but try listening to it and not throw objects at the loudspeaker because its message does not correspond with your entrenched world view. You might learn something.

Shamima Begum did not join ISIS to be a terrorist - she joined to be a baby factory (and thus also to be abused).

British intelligence organisations were well aware of her before she and her companions left the country but did nothing to stop her. Nor did they inform her teachers and parents of her intentions. There was every opportunity to stop her at the airport departure gate.

Of course, if she comes back to the UK, she should be segregated from society - but the opportunity should be taken to de-programme her. Because of its earlier failings the British state owes her at least that.

[splashscuba]

So a 15 year old British citizen (maybe) joins ISIS (yet to be tried in a court of law) and loses her citizenship so is stateless.

There may be isolated instances, but I can't think of any other group of terrorists who lose their citizenship, including convicted IRA bombers.

I think we absolutly should give this person the right to a fair hearing and a trial if deemed in the public interest, in this country.

[Nearly Sane]

This

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/19/britain-can-no-longer-shirk-its-responsibility-for-shamima-begum?__twitter_impression=true