Shamima Begum

[Robbie]

You're right they will, and some probably will if she does not.
I am torn but on balance thinks she should be allowed back.
She was 15, and a child when she left.

Agree BeRash. She suffered so much. What may have seemed like an adventure to a 15 year old turned into a nightmare.

[ippy]

My gut says leave her there, but I think fair play and compassion says let her back even though I'm sure she and her offspring will more than likely be a permanent drain on our resources.

ippy

 

[Harrowby Hall]

She has no offspring. She produced three babies when employed as a baby factory. All three have died.

For this alone she deserves your compassion.

[Robbie]

Agreed H. I hope she is afforded some anonymity on her return.

[Steve H]

Agreed H. I hope she is afforded some anonymity on her return.

Difficult. She has a quite striking, distinctive face, and will probably be recognised. i suppose she could wear a niqab.

[Nearly Sane]

Frank Gardener looking at this and more generalized questions. Interesting point at the end about the Kurds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-53428928

[Robbie]

If this is the interview talked about Shamima Begum doesn't come across as smug to me. She is more articulate than I'd imagined but quite nervous:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47276572

I also don't think she is especially distinctive looking, would blend in and back in UK, make up & different clothes would change her appearance. Theres no need to keep taking photos of her either, we'd soon forget how she looked.

[Roses]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56209007

Begum has been refused permission to come back to the UK.

[jeremyp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56209007

Begum has been refused permission to come back to the UK.

I think the government needs to show some humanity here.

[Roses]

That woman could be a danger if she returns to the UK.

[Steve H]

That woman could be a danger if she returns to the UK.

She was only 15, for heaven's sake, and hasn't committed any terrorist outrages herself. She appears to be penitent. How about showing a bit of tolerance for once?

[Roses]

She was only 15, for heaven's sake, and hasn't committed any terrorist outrages herself. She appears to be penitent. How about showing a bit of tolerance for once?

She is not child any longer,  what evidence is there that woman has shown any penitence for her actions? If she committed a terrorist attack there would be an outcry that she was give leave to return to the UK. Far better safe than sorry, imo.

[Nearly Sane]

The UK govt is very keen on deporting criminals to their country of origin. Seems a bit inconsistent.

[Steve H]

She is not child any longer,  what evidence is there that woman has shown any penitence for her actions? If she committed a terrorist attack there would be an outcry that she was give leave to return to the UK. Far better safe than sorry, imo.

You inflict a succession of glutinously sentimental, self-penned signatures on us, but in the final analysis you are hard-hearted and intolerant. We see it in many of your posts: everything you approve of should be compulsory, everything you disapprove of should be banned. You should try practising your current signature.

[Roses]

You inflict a succession of glutinously sentimental, self-penned signatures on us, but in the final analysis you are hard-hearted and intolerant. We see it in many of your posts: everything you approve of should be compulsory, everything you disapprove of should be banned. You should try practising your current signature.

YAWN!

[Aruntraveller]

YAWN!

Except it is not a YAWN as you put it in your elegant way of debating.

It's an important point. If we are not able to show tolerance and yes even mercy, we surely become no better than those we choose to criticise.

[Roses]

Except it is not a YAWN as you put it in your elegant way of debating.

It's an important point. If we are not able to show tolerance and yes even mercy, we surely become no better than those we choose to criticise.

We have shown tolerance to other members of IS and it has been a HUGE mistake.

[Steve H]

We have shown tolerance to other members of IS and it has been a HUGE mistake.

I'm sure you can back up that statement with specific examples.

[Owlswing]

I'm sure you can back up that statement with specific examples.

The November 2015 attackers in Paris were returned ISIS fighters.

What and/or who is to say that this situation is not going to be repeated here? Is the risk of UK residents being murdered by returning ISIS fighters acceptable?

Unless the chance of such attacks is ZERO per cent it is unacceptable in my opinion; especially having a close relative who is a copper and thus a likely target for such an attack!

Owlswing

)O(

[Roses]

The November 2015 attackers in Paris were returned ISIS fighters.

What and/or who is to say that this situation is not going to be repeated here? Is the risk of UK residents being murdered by returning ISIS fighters acceptable?

Unless the chance of such attacks is ZERO per cent it is unacceptable in my opinion; especially having a close relative who is a coper and thus a likely target for such an attack!

Owlswing

)O(

Good post.

[Robbie]

I'm sorry she is not allowed back home & is stateless. She was just a school kid when she went off & believe she should be forgiven. I wonder if the decisision is irrevocable.

[Owlswing]

I'm sorry she is not allowed back home & is stateless. She was just a school kid when she went off & believe she should be forgiven. I wonder if the decision is irrevocable.

I agree with your comments, but she went knowing full well the kinds of atrocities that the people she was joining were perpetrating upon anyone who disagreed with them She must thus have agreed with the inflicting of those atrocities, teenager, schoolkid or whatever she might have been, she cannot have been unaware of the position in which ISIS was held by the Western World and its populations.

I am sorry, but she was perfectly happy to go, let her take the consequences of her actions, as we all have to, a harsh lesson in life - at least she has managed to stay alive, many of those she joined and was living with are not!

Owlswing

)O(

[Aruntraveller]

I agree with your comments, but she went knowing full well the kinds of atrocities that the people she was joining were perpetrating upon anyone who disagreed with them She must thus have agreed with the inflicting of those atrocities, teenager, schoolkid or whatever she might have been, she cannot have been unaware of the position in which ISIS was held by the Western World and its populations.

I am sorry, but she was perfectly happy to go, let her take the consequences of her actions, as we all have to, a harsh lesson in life - at least she has managed to stay alive, many of those she joined and was living with are not!

Owlswing

)O(

You start off agreeing with Robbie's comments and then assert the complete opposite!

[Robbie]

This is such a difficult issue and I do understand all points of view but can you remember how strongly felt and ho easily influenced you were at 15?  Since then she has given birth and lost three infants, she was found in a camp a couple of years ago.  She was really no more than a groomed child when she went away.  Imagine if she was one of our daughters.

I'm sure her family here would keep a good eye on her (or two at least), they don't want to lose her again and she could have helpful information.

[Harrowby Hall]

When I heard this my first thought was whether Patel had greased the palm of the Supreme Court. But am I right in thinking that this is still not the final situation?

She should be re-admitted to the UK, and supervised and mentored with the intention of (a) understanding the method and extent of her original indoctrination (b) assessing the affect that her experiences have had on the development of her current understanding and attitudes and (c) exploring opportunities to get her to evaluate her experiences and to re-orient her.

I would still like to know why she was permitted to leave the country.