Author Topic: Religion Instinct?!  (Read 851 times)

Walter

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2019, 05:40:25 PM »
Hi Robbie,

People don't understand that evidence of the kind they want, is not possible.  In this thread I have linked an article that clearly demonstrates that certain brain wiring is necessary for spiritual experiences.  It can happen both ways....the effort taken for the experience can create the necessary wiring and the existence of the wiring can create the experience.

It is clear that without the wiring (or the necessary effort) such experiences are not possible. 

The experience itself is a glimpse of another aspect of reality.....though some people who cannot have these experiences, would like to believe that the experiences are just random or hallucinatory internal experiences not connected to any objective reality. 

This battle will go on...!  :)

Cheers.

Sriram
Sriram

there is no battle , only your delusion.    (don't smoke the grass)   ;)

Maeght

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2019, 08:35:25 PM »
Hi Robbie,

People don't understand that evidence of the kind they want, is not possible.  In this thread I have linked an article that clearly demonstrates that certain brain wiring is necessary for spiritual experiences.  It can happen both ways....the effort taken for the experience can create the necessary wiring and the existence of the wiring can create the experience.

It is clear that without the wiring (or the necessary effort) such experiences are not possible. 

The experience itself is a glimpse of another aspect of reality.....though some people who cannot have these experiences, would like to believe that the experiences are just random or hallucinatory internal experiences not connected to any objective reality. 

This battle will go on...!  :)

Cheers.

Sriram

You,of course, would like to believe they are glimpses of another aspect of reality.

jeremyp

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2019, 08:56:58 PM »
Hi everyone,

The point is that you people are not honestly agreeing to the following...

1. Certain experiences such as spiritual experiences, depend on brain wiring. If the wiring is not right, the person will not be able to experience such matters. This is fact as per the article above.
Why would I honestly agree to that since it is a deeply dishonest statement? First of all, it is not a fact, it is a hypothesis. Secondly, assuming atheists are wired differently, you characterise the difference in wiring as a deficiency when it is not necessarily any such thing. In fact, wiring that makes it easier to see through religious bulshit might bee considered to be an advantage.

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Since it depends on brain wiring, the experiences need not be purely imaginary or wishful thinking. It could be our connection to a reality that some people are unable to experience. Just as brain wiring enables eyesight, hearing etc. these internal wiring could connect us to a reality that is not otherwise obvious.  Since most spiritual people agree on the many beneficial effects of the experiences, they can be taken as real.

Brain wiring does not enable eyesight, hearing etc, it determines how these things are processed. Brain wiring alone will not allow you to experience new phenomena from the world. For that you need sense organs like eyes and ears etc.

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3. Evidence in objective terms cannot be provided.  Only anecdotal accounts can be provided.  So, stop asking for 'evidence...evidence'.  If you can't see it...you just can't. 

That's an admission of defeat. We ask for evidence. You tell us you haven't got any so why do we need to believe you?
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Sriram

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2019, 04:44:57 AM »
You,of course, would like to believe they are glimpses of another aspect of reality.


Of course I would!!  I have enough reasons to know that there is a reality beyond the obvious physical one that we can sense through our five senses.

Trentvoyager

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2019, 07:53:50 AM »
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I have enough reasons to know believe that there is a reality beyond the obvious physical one that we can sense through our five senses.

FTFY
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Maeght

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2019, 08:05:38 AM »

Of course I would!!  I have enough reasons to know that there is a reality beyond the obvious physical one that we can sense through our five senses.

Believe, not know.

Sriram

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2019, 08:09:11 AM »
Believe, not know.


I 'know'!  You like to think that I 'believe'.....which is different....

Maeght

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2019, 08:10:40 AM »

I 'know'!  You like to think that I 'believe'.....which is different....

You believe, but like to think you know.

Sriram

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2019, 08:26:06 AM »
You believe, but like to think you know.



How do you know that?

Maeght

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2019, 08:35:08 AM »


How do you know that?

Your view is based on personal experiences you interpret in a particular way for which there is no objective evidence. Sounds like belief to me.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2019, 08:35:39 AM »
Sriram,

Quote
I 'know'!  You like to think that I 'believe'.....which is different....

How do you "know" what you think you know when you have no evidence for it?
"To understand via the heart is not to understand."

Michel de Montaigne

enki

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2019, 10:17:26 AM »

I 'know'!  You like to think that I 'believe'.....which is different....

Based on my experiences, I could quite easily say I 'know' that there is no such alternate reality. I wouldn't however because that would be ridiculously presumptuous of me.

Furthermore, if I am to be skeptical of your take on things because of your complete lack of evidence, then, to be scrupulously honest, I have to apply the same yardstick to my experiences which, similarly, have no evidence in and of themselves.
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Walter

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Re: Religion Instinct?!
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2019, 01:12:24 PM »
Based on my experiences, I could quite easily say I 'know' that there is no such alternate reality. I wouldn't however because that would be ridiculously presumptuous of me.

Furthermore, if I am to be skeptical of your take on things because of your complete lack of evidence, then, to be scrupulously honest, I have to apply the same yardstick to my experiences which, similarly, have no evidence in and of themselves.
good post enki

In my case it took a good few years of thought and research to reach a satisfactory explanation of the strange yet not unpleasant experience I had . Often arriving at a conclusion only later to dismiss it and then carry on looking for an acceptable answer .
Being honest with ones self is sometimes one of the most difficult things to do .