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Author Topic: US Election 2020  (Read 43473 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #500 on: January 07, 2021, 09:10:08 AM »
Quote from: Owlswing on January 07, 2021, 09:02:06 AM
What are the chances of Trump and his supporters starting a second civil war?

YES, this is a serious question!

Owlswing

)O(
An actual war, no. It's a difficult thing to manage from scratch. But low level continued violence, yes.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #501 on: January 07, 2021, 09:12:42 AM »
A majority of the Republicans in the House of Representatives voted to throw out the votes in Arizona!
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Anchorman

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #502 on: January 07, 2021, 09:52:24 AM »
Quote from: Owlswing on January 07, 2021, 09:02:06 AM
What are the chances of Trump and his supporters starting a second civil war?

YES, this is a serious question!

Owlswing

)O(
     

Trouble is....it IS a serious question.
The mere fact of the possibility scares the hell out of me.
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jeremyp

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #503 on: January 07, 2021, 11:47:42 AM »
Quote from: Anchorman on January 06, 2021, 10:05:54 PM
   




Yes; I heard!
And, given the Democrat Majority in both houses....I wouldn't rule it out.
I would. You need a two thirds majority in the Senate to remove the president from office. Not going to happen.
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jeremyp

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #504 on: January 07, 2021, 11:49:53 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on January 07, 2021, 08:41:38 AM
45% of Republicans support what happened last night

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=snap_US_capitol_poll

Four years ago, I would have found that shocking but now I find that quite encouraging. Even the majority of Republicans know that what happened last night was wrong.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #505 on: January 07, 2021, 11:50:13 AM »
Quote from: jeremyp on January 07, 2021, 11:47:42 AM
I would. You need a two thirds majority in the Senate to remove the president from office. Not going to happen.
Agree,  and there is not a current majority for the Dems in the Senate anyway
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jeremyp

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #506 on: January 07, 2021, 11:56:48 AM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on January 07, 2021, 11:50:13 AM
Agree,  and there is not a current majority for the Dems in the Senate anyway

True. The Dems won't get their 50-50 number until the Georgia elections are certified and the new congress people are seated.

One of the senators who was going to object to the Georgia electoral college result was Kelly Loeffler who already knew she had been beaten in the Georgia senate race (she withdrew her objection after the riots).
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jakswan

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #507 on: January 07, 2021, 12:34:26 PM »
Quote from: jeremyp on January 07, 2021, 11:49:53 AM
Four years ago, I would have found that shocking but now I find that quite encouraging. Even the majority of Republicans know that what happened last night was wrong.

I find those stats pretty terrifying, that is potentially a lot of people that are convinced the election was stolen.

Generally Trump supporters don't seem the most placid of people.

They need to make an example of Trump, should be in jail.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #508 on: January 07, 2021, 01:29:31 PM »
Quote from: jakswan on January 07, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
I find those stats pretty terrifying, that is potentially a lot of people that are convinced the election was stolen.

Generally Trump supporters don't seem the most placid of people.

They need to make an example of Trump, should be in jail.
Agree, but there was worrying growth in the numbers ov people on both sides who thought violence would be justified if their candidate lost.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157
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Roses

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #509 on: January 07, 2021, 01:37:10 PM »
It is truly shocking what went on yesterday in the US at the instigation of Trump. :o
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Spud

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #510 on: January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on January 07, 2021, 01:29:31 PM
Agree, but there was worrying growth in the numbers ov people on both sides who thought violence would be justified if their candidate lost.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/01/political-violence-424157
Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
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Roses

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #511 on: January 07, 2021, 01:49:03 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.

Trump didn't condemn the violence, he encouraged it with his crazy statements. >:(
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #512 on: January 07, 2021, 02:02:34 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
His speech in the morning ramped the up. He could have spoken sooner he choose not to. He also said he loved the mob.
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jakswan

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #513 on: January 07, 2021, 02:46:03 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently. As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully. The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.

I voted Leave but totally support the right of remainers to do what they did, this is not the same.

Why is Trump so convinced he won, he would be, were in not for the US Constitution, the US version of [insert choice of most notorious dictator here]. 

I've said this on this forum, before the casual demonisation of politicians is very dangerous because when the real demons emerge they can actually thrive!
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #514 on: January 07, 2021, 03:07:16 PM »
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #515 on: January 07, 2021, 03:13:31 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
Unconventional though he is, Trump would not endorse his supporters protesting violently.
When you are president unless you condemn violence in no uncertain terms you, in effect, endorse it.

Listen to his speech to the rally earlier - the language was all about marching up to the capital and fighting. If that isn't endorsing, indeed encouraging, what actually happened then I don't know what is.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #516 on: January 07, 2021, 03:21:41 PM »
Judas currently trending on Twitter - being used to describe Pence by some Republicans
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Aruntraveller

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #517 on: January 07, 2021, 03:24:51 PM »
Quote
As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully.

You were not paying attention.
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Roses

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #518 on: January 07, 2021, 03:25:24 PM »
Quote from: ProfessorDavey on January 07, 2021, 03:13:31 PM
When you are president unless you condemn violence in no uncertain terms you, in effect, endorse it.

Listen to his speech to the rally earlier - the language was all about marching up to the capital and fighting. If that isn't endorsing, indeed encouraging, what actually happened then I don't know what is.

I agree with you, Trump encouraged his crazy supporters carry out their evil deeds.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #519 on: January 07, 2021, 03:27:58 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
As evident from his TV address telling them to go home peacefully.
Too little, too late.

And although he told them to go home he did not condemned their actions (quite the reverse he said he loved them) and he further stoked the flames by continuing to claim that the election was stolen from him despite all the evidence to the contrary.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #520 on: January 07, 2021, 03:32:20 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
The question, is why are the protesters so worried about Biden winning, and why is Trump convinced he won?
The two are related - the protesters are incensed because they've bought into an unfounded conspiracy theory that Biden is a left-wing lunatic in league with the chinese/russians/iranians (delete as appropriate) who won the election by stuffing ballot boxes with fraudulent votes for him and destroyed legitimate votes for Trump. There is not a shred of evidence that either of these claims has an ounce of truth.

But usually conspiracy theories are promulgated by unhinged cranks on the internet - this is no exception except that the unhinged crank is the president of the USA.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #521 on: January 07, 2021, 03:33:48 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.
Rubbish - Trump was there, Trump addressed them, Trump told them to go to the Capitol and fight ... and guess what, that is exactly what they did.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #522 on: January 07, 2021, 03:43:57 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
If one million remainers can protest outside parliament, the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual. The violent aspect probably didn't originate with Trump but others.

Total red herring. The Brexit Remainers protest was professionally organised and managed with the co-operation of the Metroploitan Police and had peaceful intent. The Washington crowd was a mob.

How about this for a nightmare scenario:  Trump disappears and turns up on 20 January at Turnberry golf course claiming British citizenship by descent.
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Roses

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #523 on: January 07, 2021, 03:53:51 PM »
Quote from: Harrowby Hall on January 07, 2021, 03:43:57 PM
Total red herring. The Brexit Remainers protest was professionally organised and managed with the co-operation of the Metroploitan Police and had peaceful intent. The Washington crowd was a mob.

How about this for a nightmare scenario:  Trump disappears and turns up on 20 January at Turnberry golf course claiming British citizenship by descent.

That would definitely be a nightmare scenario if he get British citizenship, he might decide to stand for Parliament and wish to be come PM! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! ;D
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Election 2020
« Reply #524 on: January 07, 2021, 03:56:11 PM »
Quote from: Spud on January 07, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
... the actual protest of Trump's supporters is not unusual.
Yes it is - it is based on a belief that Trump actually won the election, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

There are plenty of protests again governments and policies that people don't like (even if those policies were supported in a democratic process). Plenty of times have there been protest based on a view that person A or party B should have won an election, but I cannot think of other examples (except in countries with a passing acquaintance with democracy) where the protest is based on a belief that they did win.
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