His Dark Materials

[Nearly Sane]

Watching this now. Whether it does justice to the books, we'll see. To be fair, I thought the last book flabby.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000b1v2

[Nearly Sane]

Well I thought it was a solid start. Seen a lot of people saying they don't know what is going on - but given that it' s not clear up front in the book, then not sure what they could have done while still trying to get the point across. Presumably the overhead of creating 'daemons' for everyone meant that there seemed to be quite a lot of them seemed to have gone for a walk.

[Anchorman]

Seems reasonably true to 'Northern Lights' so far. Definately watchable if you've read the trilogy, but probably a bit baffling if you gaven't. Like others, I found the latest book in his 'Lyra' strand less than riveting, though. Perhapse he should not have re turned to that strand again.

[Nearly Sane]

Seems reasonably true to 'Northern Lights' so far. Definately watchable if you've read the trilogy, but probably a bit baffling if you gaven't. Like others, I found the latest book in his 'Lyra' strand less than riveting, though. Perhapse he should not have re turned to that strand again.

My comment on the last book being flabby was applied to the last book in the trilogy, The Amber Spyglass, rather than the various books around the series since. I know they are nearly finished the filming of The Subtle Knife but The Amber Spyglass awaits confirmation of being filmed. If I was a TV Executive tasked with approving it, I would be very careful and want the Northern Lights part to have been enormously successful first.

[ProfessorDavey]

My comment on the last book being flabby was applied to the last book in the trilogy, The Amber Spyglass, rather than the various books around the series since. I know they are nearly finished the filming of The Subtle Knife but The Amber Spyglass awaits confirmation of being filmed. If I was a TV Executive tasked with approving it, I would be very careful and want the Northern Lights part to have been enormously successful first.

I watched it last night and was impressed, although I get that things could be confusing at times. But then against, this is an 8 episode series and there is plenty of time for characters and plots to unfold over time.

Give that the series is called 'His Dark materials', which is the name of the trilogy, I wasn't sure whether the 8 episode series just covered the first book, or all three. You seem to be suggesting it is just the first book.

[Nearly Sane]

I watched it last night and was impressed, although I get that things could be confusing at times. But then against, this is an 8 episode series and there is plenty of time for characters and plots to unfold over time.

Give that the series is called 'His Dark materials', which is the name of the trilogy, I wasn't sure whether the 8 episode series just covered the first book, or all three. You seem to be suggesting it is just the first book.

Just the first book. As noted they are nearing the end of filming for the 2nd, and awaiting reception of this to give the go ahead for the third. I presume rather like Game of Thrones they thought it easier to keep the idea of the same title throughout.

[Dicky Underpants]

Watching this now. Whether it does justice to the books, we'll see. To be fair, I thought the last book flabby.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000b1v2

Looks pretty impressive, but no more so than the sadly unfinished attempt to film the trilogy for the big screen (only the first chunk, called "The Golden Compass" was completed).

I read the books shortly after they were published, and like you I thought the last book was something of a let-down. Depicting 'God' as a frail old man tottering to his death seemed incredibly feeble, compared with the  way Pullman had previously juggled philosophical, theological and scientific ideas in a highly imaginative and compelling way.

All in all though, I thought the books were a tour de force of the imagination. But I still don't quite get what Mrs. Coulter is supposed to be about. Having so complex a character in the mix will certainly give critics something to chew over for decades to come. I wonder if Pullman himself was quite deliberate in the way he constructed her character, or whether - as so many writers tell us - she developed a life of her own?

[Nearly Sane]

Looks pretty impressive, but no more so than the sadly unfinished attempt to film the trilogy for the big screen (only the first chunk, called "The Golden Compass" was completed).

I read the books shortly after they were published, and like you I thought the last book was something of a let-down. Depicting 'God' as a frail old man tottering to his death seemed incredibly feeble, compared with the  way Pullman had previously juggled philosophical, theological and scientific ideas in a highly imaginative and compelling way.

All in all though, I thought the books were a tour de force of the imagination. But I still don't quite get what Mrs. Coulter is supposed to be about. Having so complex a character in the mix will certainly give critics something to chew over for decades to come. I wonder if Pullman himself was quite deliberate in the way he constructed her character, or whether - as so many writers tell us - she developed a life of her own?

Spoilers alert, sweetie.
There was so much flab though. The mulefa as an attempt to deal with ID were pointless. The whole thread on the assassin priest who just ends up killed like the scimitar wielding baddy in Raiders of the Lost Ark but having taken 100 times more. The loss of Lyra as an independent character in his redo of the Adam and Eve story, which ironically came across as very sexist. It needed a good editor.


I prefer this version because the film didn't have enough time and overall so far the casting has been better.

[Nearly Sane]

All in all though, I thought the books were a tour de force of the imagination. But I still don't quite get what Mrs. Coulter is supposed to be about. Having so complex a character in the mix will certainly give critics something to chew over for decades to come. I wonder if Pullman himself was quite deliberate in the way he constructed her character, or whether - as so many writers tell us - she developed a life of her own?

More spoilers:
 I gave this a bit of thought and I think that Pullman is suggesting that any human no matter how selfish and evil has a capacity for love, and then I found this quote which I think clinches it.

"I told him I was going to betray you, and betray Lyra, and he believed me because I was corrupt and full of wickedness. I wanted him to find no good in me and he didn't. There is none. But I love Lyra. Where did this love come from? I don't know; it came to me like a thief in the night, and now I love her so much my heart is bursting with it. All I could hope was that my crimes were so monstrous that the love was no bigger than a mustard seed in the shadow of them, and I wished I'd committed even greater ones to hide it more deeply still".

Now, obviously there's mirroring of religious ideas here but I think that's in line with how Pullman sees religion as a dark mirror to our humanity.

[Robbie]

I didn't watch it; a number of years ago I devoured things like that on television but in recent years, I've lost interest (haven't even watched the last couple of Dr Who series, not comparing Pullman to Dr Who).

I remember some years ago a TV adaptation of a Pullman story, with Billie Piper (I think), but couldn't get into it, therefore I conclude my tastes have changed.

However I might watch 'His Dark Materials', in bits and pieces. Found this grauniad review:-
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/nov/03/his-dark-materials-review-bbc

[Nearly Sane]

The Billie Piper ones were adaptations of the Sally Lockhart books, The Ruby in the Smoke, and The Shadow in the North. They also featured a very young pre Doctor Who Matt Smith. I don't think they can be compared to His Dark Materials easilu either as books, or TV adaptations.

[Dicky Underpants]

More spoilers:
 I gave this a bit of thought and I think that Pullman is suggesting that any human no matter how selfish and evil has a capacity for love, and then I found this quote which I think clinches it.

"I told him I was going to betray you, and betray Lyra, and he believed me because I was corrupt and full of wickedness. I wanted him to find no good in me and he didn't. There is none. But I love Lyra. Where did this love come from? I don't know; it came to me like a thief in the night, and now I love her so much my heart is bursting with it. All I could hope was that my crimes were so monstrous that the love was no bigger than a mustard seed in the shadow of them, and I wished I'd committed even greater ones to hide it more deeply still".

Now, obviously there's mirroring of religious ideas here but I think that's in line with how Pullman sees religion as a dark mirror to our humanity.

Well spotted. It certainly seems to indicate that Ms C finds doing evil very attractive, and finds these feelings of love a great inconvenience. Some people seem able to live with a very great deal of cognitive dissonance without any concern whatever (wasn't Hitler fond of domestic animals?)

[Nearly Sane]

Well spotted. It certainly seems to indicate that Ms C finds doing evil very attractive, and finds these feelings of love a great inconvenience. Some people seem able to live with a very great deal of cognitive dissonance without any concern whatever (wasn't Hitler fond of domestic animals?)

Even mair spoilers.

I think Mrs Coulter (whose actual first name, Marisa, hints at the title of Mrs) is essentially evil but when the realisation hits that she loves Lyra is essentially unable to live with it and hence sacrifices herself. In the end to echo another redeemed character, it is a far far better thing she went to do.

[Dicky Underpants]

Even mair spoilers.

I think Mrs Coulter (whose actual first name, Marisa, hints at the title of Mrs) is essentially evil but when the realisation hits that she loves Lyra is essentially unable to live with it and hence sacrifices herself. In the end to echo another redeemed character, it is a far far better thing she went to do.

But Sidney was in the grip of the demon drink, and not entirely responsible for his actions. His sacrifice - requiring a supreme effort of will - was all the more heroic.

btw It seems to me that right now is the worst of times - is there some sense in which it might be the best of times? (subject for another thread)

[Nearly Sane]

But Sidney was in the grip of the demon drink, and not entirely responsible for his actions. His sacrifice - requiring a supreme effort of will - was all the more heroic.

btw It seems to me that right now is the worst of times - is there some sense in which it might be the best of times? (subject for another thread)

For some time The Second Coming and the start of A Tale of Two Cities have just seemed so apposite, even more than previously.

As to Carton v Coulter, it seems to me that Carton redeems himself but in some way Coulter is redeemed. That said her acceptance in what is a complete negation of every thing she was seems braver. And arguably both are braver than that other fictional self sacrificing C, Jesus.

[Dicky Underpants]

For some time The Second Coming and the start of A Tale of Two Cities have just seemed so apposite, even more than previously.

I've a good idea who the 'rough beast slouching towards Bethlehem' might be.

[Nearly Sane]

I've a good idea who the 'rough beast slouching towards Bethlehem' might be.

I do think that Pullman was thinking of The Second Coming at times in His Dark Materials. Given the imagery it seems hard not to see it.

As ever I think there are many candidates for that rough beast, and perhaps in the end it is simply the worst of all of us. A failure that we all aid and abet in.

[Nearly Sane]

Watching the second episode and just thinking I want to live there

[Roses]

We have been enjoying, 'His Dark Materials', which surprised me as I didn't think it would be my thing.

[Nearly Sane]

We have been enjoying, 'His Dark Materials', which surprised me as I didn't think it would be my thing.

Hurrah.

[Walter]

Hurrah.

eh up Saney ,

The only enjoyment I got from it was watching Ruth Wilson 😘😱

[Roses]

We watched the last episode last night, WHAT A HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT!

[Harrowby Hall]

We watched the last episode last night, WHAT A HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT!

The saga is not over yet. We have only reached the end of Book 1.  There are two more to come.

[Roses]

The saga is not over yet. We have only reached the end of Book 1.  There are two more to come.

I didn't realise that, thanks for the info.

[Harrowby Hall]

Well, the second part of the story is now underway. It is as compelling as the first part.

Dafne Keen will be an actress ... oops female actor ... to watch out for.

For those with appropriate tv sets, the iPlayer version is in 4K.