Vaping kills

[Roses]

We all know that smoking tobacco is very harmful to the lungs, apparently half of all smokers die due to smoking related diseases.

People thought vaping was safer but that appears not to be the case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50377256

I am so very grateful none of my close family smoke.

[Stranger]

People thought vaping was safer but that appears not to be the case.

One case like this, tragic as it is, does not mean that vaping isn't safer than smoking, all it shows is that it isn't risk-free.

[Outrider]

Just as it took a long time (partly due to the deliberate obfuscation of vested interests) to establish that tobacco was as dangerous as it is, so it's likely to take a long time (in the face of perhaps similar obfuscation from some of the same vested interests) to establish a sufficient body of evidence to show that vaping is harmful, and to determine the extent.

In the short term, where it's not clear how dangerous (if at all) vaping intrinsically is, there is a case to be argued that if it gets people off of tobacco, which we know to be lethal in a high proportion of cases, it's probably beneficial, as there aren't many things we do that aren't immediately lethal that are as likely to kill as smoking tobacco.

I recall hearing today (I think BBC's 'Analysis' podcast?) that 8 million people a year, worldwide, die of smoking related conditions; if vaping reduces that to, say, six-million with a further million vaping related deaths, that's a net benefit.  It's not as good as nobody smoking or vaping, I'll grant you, but sometimes pragmatism has its place.

O.

[Roses]

One case like this, tragic as it is, does not mean that vaping isn't safer than smoking, all it shows is that it isn't risk-free.

Surely it is far better not to indulge in either smoking or vaping.

Another unpleasant thing about vaping is it creates an awful lot of  smoke. A while back my husband saw smoke coming over the fence from our neighbour's garden, it was only when the smell hit us we realised it wasn't a fire but the young chap vaping.

[jeremyp]

Just as it took a long time (partly due to the deliberate obfuscation of vested interests) to establish that tobacco was as dangerous as it is, so it's likely to take a long time (in the face of perhaps similar obfuscation from some of the same vested interests) to establish a sufficient body of evidence to show that vaping is harmful, and to determine the extent.

In the short term, where it's not clear how dangerous (if at all) vaping intrinsically is, there is a case to be argued that if it gets people off of tobacco, which we know to be lethal in a high proportion of cases, it's probably beneficial, as there aren't many things we do that aren't immediately lethal that are as likely to kill as smoking tobacco.

I recall hearing today (I think BBC's 'Analysis' podcast?) that 8 million people a year, worldwide, die of smoking related conditions; if vaping reduces that to, say, six-million with a further million vaping related deaths, that's a net benefit.  It's not as good as nobody smoking or vaping, I'll grant you, but sometimes pragmatism has its place.

O.

The figure quoted in the article is that vaping is 95% safer than cigarettes. I'm not quite sure what that means exactly but probably vaping is quite a bit safer than cigarettes so if every smoker switched to vaping, many fewer people would die because of their nicotine addiction.

As the article says "smoking is pretty much the worst thing you can do for your health",  although, personally, I would have thought it is less dangerous than jumping off tall buildings or juggling with chainsaws.

[jeremyp]

Surely it is far better not to indulge in either smoking or vaping.

Of course it is, but, if you are addicted to nicotine, vaping is a safer way to satisfy your craving.

[Roses]

Of course it is, but, if you are addicted to nicotine, vaping is a safer way to satisfy your craving.

But is it though, there have been reports from the US, which bring that into doubt.

[splashscuba]

But is it though, there have been reports from the US, which bring that into doubt.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure.

CDC

The deaths of 39 people in the US have been connected to vaping and have prompted worldwide concern about its safety. There have been 2,051 cases of e-cigarette, or vaping, product use associated lung injury (called EVALI) in the outbreak

BBC

[Aruntraveller]

What is lacking with vaping is long term studies because it is a relatively new phenomenon.

WE have decades of medical evidence about the ill effects of tobacco, but precious little for vaping. It could be just  an unfortunate few that have an adverse reaction, or it could be that over time we will see more and more people affected. AS yet, we don't have enough evidence to go on. Proceed with caution is the best we've got.

[Steve H]

One single very exceptional case proves nothing. He had a rare reaction to it. Some people are allergic to milk. are you going to ban that?

[jeremyp]

But is it though

Yes.

there have been reports from the US, which bring that into doubt.

I'm not saying vaping is safe, I'm saying it's safer than smoking. Yes, it would be better if people didn't vape or smoke at all, but that is cloud cuckoo territory.

Furthermore there are disturbing implications to banning things just because they can be harmful to some people. Steve mentioned milk allergies. I like peanuts but people have died from eating them so they should be banned, right?

[Roses]

Yes.

I'm not saying vaping is safe, I'm saying it's safer than smoking. Yes, it would be better if people didn't vape or smoke at all, but that is cloud cuckoo territory.

Furthermore there are disturbing implications to banning things just because they can be harmful to some people. Steve mentioned milk allergies. I like peanuts but people have died from eating them so they should be banned, right?

You are not comparing like with like. Food allergies are very different to deliberately harming yourself by smoking or vaping.

[jeremyp]

You are not comparing like with like. Food allergies are very different to deliberately harming yourself by smoking or vaping.

The story that you opened this thread with was about somebody nearly dying because they had an allergy to the chemicals in vape (if that's what you call it). It's exactly analogous to somebody nearly dying because of an allergy to peanuts.

[Roses]

The story that you opened this thread with was about somebody nearly dying because they had an allergy to the chemicals in vape (if that's what you call it). It's exactly analogous to somebody nearly dying because of an allergy to peanuts.

People with food allergies avoid the foods those foods. No one who smokes is unaware of how dangerous it can be so if they take up the ghastly habit, they know it could eventually kill them. Now vaping has been flagged up as likely to be dangerous too it is best to avoid  doing it.

[Enki]

But is it though, there have been reports from the US, which bring that into doubt.

For Information

Many of the patients affected by the illnesses in the US have admitted buying their e-liquids off the street. About 86% have reported using products containing tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a substance found in cannabis that produces the ‘high’ sensation associated with smoking the drug. 34% reported exclusive use of THC-containing products. THC is legal in some states in the US, but it’s illegal in the UK. Recent labatory tests by The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the US have found vitamin E acetate - a substance used in some THC-containing e-liquids - in samples from people affected. This is the first time that scientists have found a chemical of concern in patients with these lung injuries.

https://yorkshirecancerresearch.org.uk/news/in-the-news-is-it-safe-to-keep-vaping?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInous247n5QIVSbDtCh0ANwrdEAAYASAAEgIA2fD_BwE

[jeremyp]

People with food allergies avoid the foods those foods.

They don't before they find out that they have got the allergy. I guarantee that the young man in your link will avoid vaping in the future.

No one who smokes is unaware of how dangerous it can be so if they take up the ghastly habit, they know it could eventually kill them. Now vaping has been flagged up as likely to be dangerous too it is best to avoid  doing it.

But you know smoking is addictive, right? People who are smokers know it is bad for them, but they can't give up because they are addicted. Vaping is less bad for them, even if it is still a bit dangerous. It's an improvement on smoking.

[Roses]

They don't before they find out that they have got the allergy. I guarantee that the young man in your link will avoid vaping in the future.
But you know smoking is addictive, right? People who are smokers know it is bad for them, but they can't give up because they are addicted. Vaping is less bad for them, even if it is still a bit dangerous. It's an improvement on smoking.

They are crazy to start in the first place knowing it is dangerous and addictive, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

[splashscuba]

They are crazy to start in the first place knowing it is dangerous and addictive, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

It is what it is. People start smoking because they did and do. Get addicted. Want to stop. Choose vaping because it IS safer.

[Robbie]

There are other ways of giving up smoking which are safe, vaping seems a bit 'posery' to me, I've not known anyone who has done it but several people who gave up the weed successfully with other types of help.

[Walter]

There are other ways of giving up smoking which are safe, vaping seems a bit 'posery' to me, I've not known anyone who has done it but several people who gave up the weed successfully with other types of help.

I successfully gave up smoking back in 2011 using supermarket own berand of nicotine lozenges
£7 for 72 tabs which last about a week . Also flying to NZ was a powerful motivator .
I haven't touched  a cig since !
To be honest not smoking has NOT improved my asthma ?

[Gordon]

I successfully gave up smoking back in 2011 using supermarket own berand of nicotine lozenges
£7 for 72 tabs which last about a week . Also flying to NZ was a powerful motivator .
I haven't touched  a cig since !
To be honest not smoking has NOT improved my asthma ?

Well done you, and your asthma might well have worsened had you not stopped smoking.

I was amazed to learn recently that the cost of a pack of 20 cigarettes is now around £10, so your wallet will have benefited too.

[Steve H]

People with food allergies avoid the foods those foods. No one who smokes is unaware of how dangerous it can be so if they take up the ghastly habit, they know it could eventually kill them. Now vaping has been flagged up as likely to be dangerous too it is best to avoid  doing it.

Yes, of course it is best to avoid both, but vaping is much safer than smoking, and is a good way of giving up.

[Walter]

Well done you, and your asthma might well have worsened had you not stopped smoking.

I was amazed to learn recently that the cost of a pack of 20 cigarettes is now around £10, so your wallet will have benefited too.

thanks Gordon
I think the last pack of fags I bought was about £4.50
I'll have to sit down and work out how much money I've saved 👍

[Roses]

Yes, of course it is best to avoid both, but vaping is much safer than smoking, and is a good way of giving up.

It isn't much safer than smoking if apparently people have died due to vaping.

[Steve H]

It isn't much safer than smoking if apparently people have died due to vaping.

Who has died due to it? The young man in the news item didn't. It is much safer than smoking, but not completely safe.