Veganism

[Steve H]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

I'm aware of the fallacy so named, and if you'd said "That's the 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' fallacy", that would have been ok, but you only said "post hoc ergo propter hoc"

[Nearly Sane]

I'm aware of the fallacy so named, and if you'd said "That's the 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' fallacy", that would have been ok, but you only said "post hoc ergo propter hoc"

It is implied. Not everything needs spelt out.

[Steve H]

It is implied. Not everything needs spelt out.

"...needs to be spelt out", or "...needs spelling out".

[Robbie]

Plain speaking needed here! 

Spelt would make a mess anyway if it was out.

(Did you know Spelt is also called 'dinkel wheat'? Gave me a giggle)

[jeremyp]

so that's the ad hominem fallacy. House!

How is it ad hominem? I'm not aware LR's daughter has made an argument on this thread.

[jeremyp]

Plain speaking needed here! 

Spelt would make a mess anyway if it was out.

(Did you know Spelt is also called 'dinkel wheat'? Gave me a giggle)

It is, at least, not an animal product.

[Nearly Sane]

How is it ad hominem? I'm not aware LR's daughter has made an argument on this thread.

It's an ad hominem against the position taken by her daughter by LR

[Robbie]

A Gregg's fan here.

[Alan Burns]

Just read an excellent book on the subject:
"Five go Gluten Free" from the Enid Blyton for adults collection.
A hilarious take on healthy eating.
Highly recommended.

[jeremyp]

It's an ad hominem against the position taken by her daughter by LR

Ad hominem is precisely not an argument against a position. It's an argument against a person who takes up the position as a substitute for a real argument against the position. "My daughter advocates veganism, but then she is an Anglican priest" is an ad hominem. Given that you are not quite sane, it doesn't surprise me that you get this wrong.

[jeremyp]

A Gregg's fan here.

The lady in Greggs, she bakes pasties for me...

[Robbie]

.....she charges no fee and they're all gluten free....

[jeremyp]

.....she charges no fee and they're all gluten free....

Very good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIFqsHaoy1Y

[Sriram]

Why are vegans hated so much....?

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200203-the-hidden-biases-that-drive-anti-vegan-hatred

**********

People love to moan that vegans are annoying: research has shown that only drug addicts inspire the same degree of loathing. Now psychologists are starting to understand why – and it’s becoming clear that the reasons aren’t entirely rational.

As the popularity of vegan life continues to gather pace, a tide of vitriol has risen. To eat meat, or not to eat meat: the question has become a battleground, with passionate carnivores and vegan activists deploying some deliciously headline-grabbing tactics. There have been pig robberies. There have been defiant public carvings of deer legs. There have been nude protesters smothered with fake blood. There have been provocative sandwiches.

Though it’s natural for people to disagree, the passionate rage – and even mild irritation – that veganism stirs up seems to defy rational sense.

**********

[Aruntraveller]

Though it’s natural for people to disagree, the passionate rage – and even mild irritation – that veganism stirs up seems to defy rational sense.

Hmmm.......rational sense.

You do realise you are talking about the human race here. Rational sense is not, in my experience, always the first route chosen when exploring any given issue. Emotions and irrational thought are more likely to play a part with some of our population. Hence why we still have racism, sexism, homophobia, class division, etc.

I mean why would any rational being vote for Donald Trump?

I agree with you on a personal level I  don't get it, I am supremely uninterested in other people's diets. They can eat what they wish as long as I am free to do the same. And there is certainly increasing evidence that a vegan diet for us humans would benefit the planet enormously, but that's just rationalism talking. Try telling that to a steak eating American and you'll probably find that your violating their constitutional rights. 

[jeremyp]

Though it’s natural for people to disagree, the passionate rage – and even mild irritation – that veganism stirs up seems to defy rational sense.

Because bacon sandwiches.

There is a perception that vegans are interfering busybodies who want to stop us from eating nice things. I'm sure it's not true in most cases, but the perception is there.

[jeremyp]

Here's an interesting story about veganism. It discusses the question about whether vegans can eat scallops. I thought the idea was completely bonkers at first, but actually, the article does raise questions about where the line should be drawn and why you would draw a line at all.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvxznq/are-scallops-vegan

[Dicky Underpants]

Here's an interesting story about veganism. It discusses the question about whether vegans can eat scallops. I thought the idea was completely bonkers at first, but actually, the article does raise questions about where the line should be drawn and why you would draw a line at all.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvxznq/are-scallops-vegan

Drawing lines is a bit bonkers. Take the case of mushrooms, which I suppose are given the vegan all clear. But biology has long allocated fungi to its own separate 'kingdom' - definitely not 'veg'. And according to Prof Richard Forte (and no doubt many other boffins), in evolutionary terms they are actually closer to animals.

[jeremyp]

Drawing lines is a bit bonkers. Take the case of mushrooms, which I suppose are given the vegan all clear. But biology has long allocated fungi to its own separate 'kingdom' - definitely not 'veg'. And according to Prof Richard Forte (and no doubt many other boffins), in evolutionary terms they are actually closer to animals.

Well that's one thing, but also there is the question of the central nervous system. Some people say that, if an organism has one, you can't eat it. Well the scallop has a central nervous system but it has about two nerve cells. Then there's the  question of environmental damage. But then, some plant based foods are environmentally damaging.

[Steve H]

If you're going to base your diet on compassion, the question should be "is what I'm about to eat capable of suffering?". If it is, you don't eat it. That excludes all vertebrates, and probably dairy products as well, but probably not insects or their products, such as honey (I wouldn't eat insects, but that's from squeamishness. Actually, our modern squeamishness asbout eating insects is a relatively modern, Western idea: other cultures, past and present, think nothing of it.) I doubt if bivalves can suffer, so they should be ok.

[Udayana]

If you're going to base your diet on compassion, the question should be ...

... how do I feel about eating this animal, plant, whatever. How much do I care what the effects of having it as part of my diet are, on it directly or all of life and the environment?
 
   

[ippy]

Just a thought, 'evolution', Veganism should die out eventually.

ippy 

[Spud]

Should we all be vegan?

When I can find a vegan product I can afford, then I will decide!

[Aruntraveller]

When I can find a vegan product I can afford, then I will decide!

What do you know. Spud can't afford spuds.

[Spud]

What do you know. Spud can't afford spuds.

I meant the vegetarian sausages, etc.