Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 7566 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #975 on: March 25, 2020, 08:34:11 PM »
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:36:38 PM by Nearly Sane »


Nearly Sane

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Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #978 on: March 25, 2020, 10:26:17 PM »
The censorious self-righteousness on display every day in the 'Hemel Hempstead Community and Conversation' Facebook group is rather depressing. Some people are going out of their way to find things to condemn in posts, such as a video of people walikg in a London park, enjoying the sunshine, and, as far as I could see, keeping a reasonable distance from each other.
When we are born, we cry that we are come to this great stage of fools.
King Lear, Act 4 Scene 6

Walter

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #979 on: March 25, 2020, 10:57:26 PM »
The censorious self-righteousness on display every day in the 'Hemel Hempstead Community and Conversation' Facebook group is rather depressing. Some people are going out of their way to find things to condemn in posts, such as a video of people walikg in a London park, enjoying the sunshine, and, as far as I could see, keeping a reasonable distance from each other.
STEVE

I have no idea about living in a city , all my life I've lived in the countryside , even when at uni .
My daughter has come back from London now to the DALES

We only know open spaces . It is not difficult for us

The irony for me is ive come to park up at my sons place in the dales and his wife is an NHS doc

ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #980 on: March 26, 2020, 03:28:51 AM »
As of Friday all non-essential travel in or out of the county I live in is banned. As far as I can make out I can still go to work, though whether or not I can do that via public transport, I don't know. Thankfully I can borrow my mum's car if need be. The OB will enforce the ban and will probably ask the armed forces to help them with road blocks etc.

My mum told me she had a sore throat yesterday but as yet no other symptoms, so hopefully it's nothing.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 03:31:01 AM by ad_orientem »

Sassy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #981 on: March 26, 2020, 07:49:23 AM »
I see the MD of the CofE has decided that we need prayers, and has kicked this off as follows:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/NationalDayOfPrayer?src=hash

One wonders if those praying to 'God' might ask it why it didn't step in much earlier, such as before this all kicked off.

Would it have happened if people like yourself actually believed and prayed?

There is no reason for you reply because the truth is no one even now are really letting this threat sink in as you can see by people being removed from park and being made to keep 2 meters apart from each other. Praying plays a big part read James 5.     
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It leaves me in no doubt how much people will be praying for themselves and loves ones at this time. The virus has suddenly broken the daily routine of getting up and feeling safe as you go to work. Some having not prayed for years will suddenly find the need to pray. God answers prayers. Never think he will not listen or answer prayer because until now he has never been a fore runner in your life. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.        Sometimes we do not realise how much can change by the prayer of one person. According to Paul he said I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus!
2 Corinthians 5:21   We can never be righteous by our own doing but God makes us righteous when we believe him about Jesus his son. So pray not think about being righteous off yourself. Rather pray in the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus.  Don't stop praying for the riddence of this virus and for others to be saved and made well. in Jesus Name, Amen

The truth is that just one righteous man can make a difference in prayer. Which would you say is most difficult to receive... No rain for three years or no virus for good?  Everyone of us can make a difference by praying for others. And who knows if that one believing in Gods righteousness through Christ asks and receives the end of the deaths.       Sometimes it pays to pray because who knows you might help save someone by asking God for his help. Ultimately God is the saving power.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #982 on: March 26, 2020, 08:10:50 AM »
Would it have happened if people like yourself actually believed and prayed?

There is no reason for you reply because the truth is no one even now are really letting this threat sink in as you can see by people being removed from park and being made to keep 2 meters apart from each other. Praying plays a big part read James 5.     
The truth is that just one righteous man can make a difference in prayer. Which would you say is most difficult to receive... No rain for three years or no virus for good?  Everyone of us can make a difference by praying for others. And who knows if that one believing in Gods righteousness through Christ asks and receives the end of the deaths.       Sometimes it pays to pray because who knows you might help save someone by asking God for his help. Ultimately God is the saving power.

Praying doesn’t work. Well, it might help the mental state of the person doing the praying but nothing else.

Coronavirus is a natural phenomenon. Your god didn’t do it. Your god won’t help us get out of this.
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Littleroses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #983 on: March 26, 2020, 08:22:59 AM »
If god exists most of the time it appears to stick two fingers up at those who pray for healing, maybe it enjoys human suffering.
“ Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams.” RJG

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #984 on: March 26, 2020, 08:24:07 AM »
Would it have happened if people like yourself actually believed and prayed?
Yes, of course it would.

Littleroses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #985 on: March 26, 2020, 08:39:28 AM »
I hope people will be sensible and obey the restrictions being put on their movements, like not visiting parks, beaches or other places where they like to congregate. I have to pick up my husband's meds from the local pharmacy today. Instead of opening from 9am-5.30pm on weekdays as usual, they are opening from 10am-12pm and then 3pm-5pm. Only one person is permitted to go inside at a time.
“ Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams.” RJG

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #986 on: March 26, 2020, 09:17:38 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767

This is absolutely bonkers - we don't need a new, untested ventilator (which even if it works NHS won't be experienced in operating and will need to be trained) - what we need are huge numbers of tried and tested designs. And if Dyson have a facility that can make thousands of ventilators they should make it available to produce existing designs, not some new experimental one.

SweetPea

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #987 on: March 26, 2020, 09:25:21 AM »
I hope people will be sensible and obey the restrictions being put on their movements, like not visiting parks, beaches or other places where they like to congregate. I have to pick up my husband's meds from the local pharmacy today. Instead of opening from 9am-5.30pm on weekdays as usual, they are opening from 10am-12pm and then 3pm-5pm. Only one person is permitted to go inside at a time.

….. and I hope people are able to get out and take what is now restricted to once daily exercise. We have taken walks the past four days in green areas and everyone we have seen is abiding well to the 2 metre distancing rule.

This 'self-isolating' will play havoc with some folks' mental health so it is vital that they are able to leave their 'confinement' at some stage during the day.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.  George Orwell

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Eph 6:12

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #988 on: March 26, 2020, 09:33:22 AM »
If god exists most of the time it appears to stick two fingers up at those who pray for healing, maybe it enjoys human suffering.
BORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORING
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 09:39:34 AM by Hercules Grytpype-Thynne »
When we are born, we cry that we are come to this great stage of fools.
King Lear, Act 4 Scene 6

ippy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #989 on: March 26, 2020, 10:20:19 AM »
BORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORING

Usually accurate as well!

ippy.

Littleroses

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #990 on: March 26, 2020, 11:24:08 AM »
BORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORINGBORING

I agree many of your posts are very boring as well as inaccurate. :P ;D
“ Let your sorrows travel away on the wind, your joys ride on the clouds and your love mingle with the sunbeams.” RJG

ad_orientem

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #991 on: March 26, 2020, 11:25:06 AM »
915 confirmed cases now here and 5 deaths in total. Today was recorded 35 new cases, a drop from previous days but then they do not test all suspected cases.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #992 on: March 26, 2020, 01:37:51 PM »
A friend who is a nurse has just been moved into Intensive Therapy Unit with suspected coronavirus. Expected to be put on a ventilator this afternoon.

jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #993 on: March 26, 2020, 01:50:11 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767

This is absolutely bonkers - we don't need a new, untested ventilator

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The order is still subject to the devices passing stringent medical tests but that is expected to happen quickly.


Quote
And if Dyson have a facility that can make thousands of ventilators they should make it available to produce existing designs, not some new experimental one.

That may not be possible. Dyson factories will be equipped with certain types of machinery and traditional ventilators may not be amongst the items that that machinery can make. Maybe the choice is between thousands of these new ventilators or a few hundred extra traditional ones. Neither of us know the true situation, so ranting about it doesn't seem like a constructive use of time.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #994 on: March 26, 2020, 02:06:45 PM »

That may not be possible. Dyson factories will be equipped with certain types of machinery and traditional ventilators may not be amongst the items that that machinery can make. Maybe the choice is between thousands of these new ventilators or a few hundred extra traditional ones. Neither of us know the true situation, so ranting about it doesn't seem like a constructive use of time.
They don't have any machinery in their unit as yet as they'd originally planned it to be used for manufacturing electric cars. If you have a large empty industrial unit it will be just as easy to introduce the necessary tooling to scale up production for existing designs than a new design. But the advantage is that the existing designs can be produced and used straight away, while the new design cannot be used until sufficient testing has be done to prove the design is safe and effective.

The article is talking about weeks, even if there is very rapid regulatory approval - we could be producing thousands of ventilators of existing designs right now.

And if you introduce a new design into the NHS their staff will need to be trained on the new system - personally I'd prefer front line staff to be saving lives rather than being trained on a new and totally superfluous ventilator design when there are existing designs available - all we need is the scale-up manufacturing space.

Of course it goes without saying that James Dyson is a tory donor and leading brexit supporter.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 02:09:18 PM by ProfessorDavey »

jeremyp

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #995 on: March 26, 2020, 02:15:21 PM »
They don't have any machinery in their unit as yet as they'd originally planned it to be used for manufacturing electric cars. If you have a large empty industrial unit it will be just as easy to introduce the necessary tooling to scale up production for existing designs than a new design.
Can I ask what your  expertise is on manufacturing technology?

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But that advantage is that the existing designs can be produced and used straight away

Well they can't can they. Otherwise we would be doing it.

Quote
The article is talking about weeks, even if there is very rapid regulatory approval - we could be producing thousands of ventilators of existing designs right now.
What makes you think people aren't producing ventilators as fast as they can already?

Quote
Of course it goes without saying that James Dyson is a tory donor and leading brexit supporter.
I thought you better than a mere purveyor of ad hominem arguments.

Here's a more detailed version of the story.

https://www.ft.com/content/4cc667f2-6ee2-11ea-89df-41bea055720b
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #996 on: March 26, 2020, 02:16:46 PM »
That may not be possible. Dyson factories will be equipped with certain types of machinery and traditional ventilators may not be amongst the items that that machinery can make. Maybe the choice is between thousands of these new ventilators or a few hundred extra traditional ones. Neither of us know the true situation, so ranting about it doesn't seem like a constructive use of time.
See also:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52021757

Note:
'Meanwhile, a consortium of more than a dozen companies aims to build ventilators based on two existing designs.'

And Dyson saying:
"This is a highly complex project being undertaken in an extremely challenging timeframe," it added.
"We are conducting a fully regulated medical device development, including testing in the laboratory and in humans, and we are scaling up for volume."

Why engage in a 'highly complex project being undertaken in an extremely challenging timeframe' when you can just build existing designs as the other companies are doing.

Note too:
"Recreating established prototypes is likely to be a faster way to deal with the immediate demand," Dr Marion Hersh, senior lecturer in biomedical engineering at the University of Glasgow, told the BBC.

And sure she says that 'there could be value in more than one option in the slightly longer term', but we aren't interested in the longer term - we need thousands of ventilators right now.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #997 on: March 26, 2020, 02:21:53 PM »
Can I ask what your expertise is on manufacturing technology?
Err ex head of an Engineering School in a leading university.

Well they can't can they. Otherwise we would be doing it.
They can, that's exactly what a consortium of more than a dozen companies are doing. If Dyson really want to help they should join that consortium, but they've chosen not to.
 
What makes you think people aren't producing ventilators as fast as they can already?
They'd be able to produce them faster if Dyson joined the effort to produce more ventilators of existing designs rather than putting their efforts into designing something new that won't be available for weeks or months and even once available will require NHS staff to use up precious time being trained on the new equipment.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #998 on: March 26, 2020, 02:22:48 PM »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #999 on: March 26, 2020, 02:31:26 PM »
Well they can't can they. Otherwise we would be doing it.
How come Dyson can't, but the following can:
Airbus
Ford
McLaran
Rolls Royce
plus others

Who have all joined the consortium to turn their manufacturing expertise and facilities towards the production of two existing designs of ventilators. Are you going to challenge them on their expertise in manufacturing technology?

I completely agree with Prof Nick Oliver from the Edinburgh Business School (are you going to challenge his expertise too?) quoted as saying: that time could be wasted if inexperienced companies tried to design and produce their own ventilators.
"Great products come from painstaking testing, refinement and a deep understanding of the context of use," he added.
"Rather than tasking non-medical companies to develop and produce ventilators from scratch, policymakers would do better to focus on how to extend the capacity of existing device manufacturers, who already have this detailed knowledge.
"Celebrating inventiveness and resourcefulness is all well and good, but this is not the top priority at the moment."