'Feminists must reject left and right'

[Nearly Sane]

Interesting article, and while it does touch on the issue of Gender Recognition Act, it's a much wider perspective


https://thecritic.co.uk/feminists-must-cut-loose-from-left-and-right/

[Steve H]

I'm put off by the title, before I even start on the substance of the article. I don't like being told I "must" do things. It's the left that is Feminist-friendly, by and large, and that's where feminists should be. 'The Critic' is, I think, a hard-right publication, so this looks like a sneaky attempt to cut the ties of feminists with the left.
Just checked. Yes, it is right-wing.

[jeremyp]

I'm put off by the title, before I even start on the substance of the article. I don't like being told I "must" do things. It's the left that is Feminist-friendly, by and large, and that's where feminists should be.

I love the irony. You complain about articles that tell you what you should do and then immediately tell feminists what political views they should have.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm put off by the title, before I even start on the substance of the article. I don't like being told I "must" do things. It's the left that is Feminist-friendly, by and large, and that's where feminists should be. 'The Critic' is, I think, a hard-right publication, so this looks like a sneaky attempt to cut the ties of feminists with the left.
Just checked. Yes, it is right-wing.

except as the article points out on many areas the left is currently not feminist friendly

[Steve H]

I love the irony. You complain about articles that tell you what you should do and then immediately tell feminists what political views they should have.

Fair point, but "should" is not as strong or imperative as "must".

[Steve H]

except as the article points out on many areas the left is currently not feminist friendly

I said "by and large". Feminism is itself a left-wing position, so anyone who is anti-feminist is, to that extent, not left-wing.

[jeremyp]

the left is currently not feminist friendly

And, in fact, probably never has been. There seems to be a conflation of the Left with liberal ideas (note the capitalisation or not). It's just not true. A hard core trade unionist in the 70's or 80's would have been just as likely to be against allowing women into his trade as anybody else and just as likely to have regressive attitudes to women as anybody else.

[Nearly Sane]

I said "by and large". Feminism is itself a left-wing position, so anyone who is anti-feminist is, to that extent, not left-wing.

No true Scotswoman

[Steve H]

And, in fact, probably never has been. There seems to be a conflation of the Left with liberal ideas (note the capitalisation or not). It's just not true. A hard core trade unionist in the 70's or 80's would have been just as likely to be against allowing women into his trade as anybody else and just as likely to have regressive attitudes to women as anybody else.

...and, to that extent, would not have been left-wing. It is possible to be left-wing in some areas, and right-wing in others. The British National Party is slightly to the left of centre in their economic policy!

[Nearly Sane]

Oh, just fuck off.

Too many men declaring themselves on the 'left' ignore the sexism that is displayed by men on the left.

[Steve H]

Too many men declaring themselves on the 'left' ignore the sexism that is displayed by men on the left.

As I said, to the extent that they are sexist, they are not left-wing. Equality and opposition to discrimination are of the left; privilege, inequality and promotion of discrimination are of the right. Therefore, my previous post was not guilty of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Nevertheless, my intemperate reply was foolish, and I shall edit it out.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No true Scotswoman

Not Good enough. No true scottish transexual.

[Steve H]

Not Good enough. No true scottish transexual.

And you can do what I said before I removed the offending message, as well.

[Nearly Sane]

Not Good enough. No true scottish transexual.

Fuck off

[Nearly Sane]

As I said, to the extent that they are sexist, they are not left-wing. Equality and opposition to discrimination are of the left; privilege, inequality and promotion of discrimination are of the right. Therefore, my previous post was not guilty of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Nevertheless, my intemperate reply was foolish, and I shall edit it out.

You have just put up another version of the NTS.

[Steve H]

You have just put up another version of the NTS.

For all your obsessive and infuriating fallacy-hunting, you obviously don't understand the NTS fallacy. Saying that someone who espouses right-wing ideas in a particular area is, to that extent, right-wing, however left-wing they may be in other areas is common sense, and has nothing to do with NTS.

[Nearly Sane]

For all your obsessive and infuriating fallacy-hunting, you obviously don't understand the NTS fallacy. Saying that someone who espouses right-wing ideas in a particular area is, to that extent, right-wing, however left-wing they may be in other areas is common sense, and has nothing to do with NTS.

  You are defining left wing in such a way that it's one of the best examples of an NTS that I have ever seen.

Anyway it doesn't make much difference if parties that you might suggest are 'left' have anti women policies.

[Nearly Sane]

Why should women vote for policies that are antiwomen from parties on the left?

[Steve H]

Why should women vote for policies that are antiwomen from parties on the left?

What anti-women policies do parties on the left have?

[Nearly Sane]

What anti-women policies do parties on the left have?

Self ID which gets rid if women's sex based rights. Support for the idea that prostitution is a valid career choice. Didn't you actually read the article?

[jeremyp]

As I said, to the extent that they are sexist, they are not left-wing. Equality and opposition to discrimination are of the left; privilege, inequality and promotion of discrimination are of the right. Therefore, my previous post was not guilty of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Nevertheless, my intemperate reply was foolish, and I shall edit it out.

Equality and opposition to discrimination are of the left; privilege, inequality and promotion of discrimination are of the right.

This just in't true. The traditional left is all about the rights of the workers not to be exploited. It's not about gay rights ir trans rights or racism. These issues are orthogonal to the raison d'être of the Labour party and the unions. Similarly for feminism.