Author Topic: Asking the age of an applicant  (Read 2974 times)

Sriram

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Asking the age of an applicant
« on: August 21, 2022, 01:01:53 PM »

Hi everyone,

Asking the age of an applicant at a job interview is 'offensive'...?! Really?! 

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/cant-ask-a-lady-that-age-question-in-interview-angers-woman-then-3272361#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

**********

A woman in Northern Ireland who was asked her age at a Domino's Pizza delivery driver job interview won £4,250 (about ₹ 3.7 lakh) in compensation. According to a report in BBC, the woman, Janice Walsh, thought she was passed over for the position because of her age and sex. She asserts that the interviewer at the Domino's Pizza franchise in Strabane, County Tyrone, questioned her about her age at the outset of the conversation.

She accused the Strabane franchise and its previous owner, Justin Quirk, of discrimination. Mr Quirk offered Ms Walsh £4,250 in compensation and apologised for the incident.

**********

Every job has specific requirements. Age could be one of them. What is wrong in asking the age of the applicant?

Sriram

Steve H

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2022, 01:24:47 PM »
I don't see why age should ever be relevant. All that matters is whether you can do the job. However, calling the question "offensive" is ridiculous, and getting £4,250 compo is ridiculosity cubed.
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Maeght

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2022, 02:38:25 PM »
Hi everyone,

Asking the age of an applicant at a job interview is 'offensive'...?! Really?! 

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/cant-ask-a-lady-that-age-question-in-interview-angers-woman-then-3272361#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories

**********

A woman in Northern Ireland who was asked her age at a Domino's Pizza delivery driver job interview won £4,250 (about ₹ 3.7 lakh) in compensation. According to a report in BBC, the woman, Janice Walsh, thought she was passed over for the position because of her age and sex. She asserts that the interviewer at the Domino's Pizza franchise in Strabane, County Tyrone, questioned her about her age at the outset of the conversation.

She accused the Strabane franchise and its previous owner, Justin Quirk, of discrimination. Mr Quirk offered Ms Walsh £4,250 in compensation and apologised for the incident.

**********

Every job has specific requirements. Age could be one of them. What is wrong in asking the age of the applicant?

Sriram

In what way can age be a specific requirement?

Roses

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2022, 03:31:27 PM »
I don't have a problem asking applicants how old they are, especially if they are getting on in years and the job is hard work physically.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2022, 07:33:02 PM »
Every job has specific requirements. Age could be one of them. What is wrong in asking the age of the applicant?

In general terms I agree with this statement but there should be some indication as to why age is an important factor. Is it possible that Justin Quirk did not ask any of the other applicants how old they were?
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Sriram

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2022, 09:20:30 AM »
Every job has specific requirements. Age could be one of them. What is wrong in asking the age of the applicant?

In general terms I agree with this statement but there should be some indication as to why age is an important factor. Is it possible that Justin Quirk did not ask any of the other applicants how old they were?



How would she know whether he did or not?!

Age IS an important factor for determining the capabilities and inabilities of any individual.....at least in a majority of cases. You can't be calling all age groups for enlisting into the army and then try to determine if all the 60 or 70 year old's are capable of running 10 miles with knapsacks and rifles.....!

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2022, 04:41:54 PM »
Hi everyone,

Asking the age of an applicant at a job interview is 'offensive'...?! Really?! 

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/cant-ask-a-lady-that-age-question-in-interview-angers-woman-then-3272361#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories
Where in the article is the word "offensive" used in relation to asking someone's age. Perhaps I've missed it, but I can't find it.

Every job has specific requirements. Age could be one of them. What is wrong in asking the age of the applicant?

Sriram
It is wrong firstly because it is against the law, and while there may be specific occupational requirements, it is very, very rare that those would specifically relate to the age of a person. If the job requires physical strength, then you include that in the job spec. and assess as part of the recruitment process. You need to assess the individual applicant in terms of their ability to meet the job spec, not lump them into a generic group. So it might be that people over 40 are on average less strong than those aged 20-30, but that doesn't mean that all people over 40 are less strong than all people between 20-30, nor that no one over 40 would have the strength to do a particular job.

jeremyp

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2022, 06:24:58 PM »
In what way can age be a specific requirement?

You can't serve alcohol behind a bar if you are under 18.

The armed forces and the police have maximum age restrictions.

It is my personal opinion that there should be a minimum age and a maximum age to be an MP. I'm thinking 30-70.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2022, 06:28:13 PM »
You can't serve alcohol behind a bar if you are under 18.

The armed forces and the police have maximum age restrictions.

It is my personal opinion that there should be a minimum age and a maximum age to be an MP. I'm thinking 30-70.
What is your justification for those age restrictions on MPs?

Sriram

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2022, 06:10:28 AM »

Why asking a person's age should be illegal is beyond me!  Age is a basic attribute of every person. It automatically implies certain qualities, traits and abilities. You understand a person better if you know his/her age.

Yes....a small percentage of persons may not fit into any specific age profile, but a vast majority will.  Not only army and police but even certain other jobs requiring a degree of mental agility and alertness can specify age limits.  Certain jobs requiring experience could prefer older people.

Checking out every person from varying age groups to determine if he/she has the required qualities and abilities would be very difficult. 




« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 06:17:13 AM by Sriram »

Gordon

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2022, 08:13:09 AM »
My memory of job application and interviews is rather hazy these days - but I'm sure I recall that back in my day of being interviewed or sitting on an interview panel, which wasn't yesterday, that items such as date of birth and qualifications/qualification dates were a routine part of the application details.

Of course I could be mistaken.

 

Maeght

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2022, 09:11:51 AM »
Why asking a person's age should be illegal is beyond me!  Age is a basic attribute of every person. It automatically implies certain qualities, traits and abilities. You understand a person better if you know his/her age.

Yes....a small percentage of persons may not fit into any specific age profile, but a vast majority will.  Not only army and police but even certain other jobs requiring a degree of mental agility and alertness can specify age limits.  Certain jobs requiring experience could prefer older people.

Checking out every person from varying age groups to determine if he/she has the required qualities and abilities would be very difficult.

It is wrong if age is used as a way of selecting candidates for jobs if in all other ways the candidate is suitable.

Robbie

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2022, 10:24:25 AM »
I don't know about pizza delivery people but most jobs require an application form to be completed which includes date of birth.

As Maeght said: It is wrong if age is used as a way of selecting candidates for jobs if in all other ways the candidate is suitable.

I agree with that, however such big compensation for such a small, clumsy question is out of proportion.
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Roses

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2022, 11:16:17 AM »
I don't know about pizza delivery people but most jobs require an application form to be completed which includes date of birth.

As Maeght said: It is wrong if age is used as a way of selecting candidates for jobs if in all other ways the candidate is suitable.

I agree with that, however such big compensation for such a small, clumsy question is out of proportion.

It is completely ridiculous, imo.
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Udayana

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2022, 11:20:30 AM »
I don't know about pizza delivery people but most jobs require an application form to be completed which includes date of birth.

As Maeght said: It is wrong if age is used as a way of selecting candidates for jobs if in all other ways the candidate is suitable.

I agree with that, however such big compensation for such a small, clumsy question is out of proportion.

No reason age, by itself, would be needed to assess the ability to deliver pizza.
 
The compensation was obviously a matter of agreement between the woman and the owner, who must have agreed that he or his organisation had been in the wrong.
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Robbie

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2022, 11:21:03 AM »
My memory of job application and interviews is rather hazy these days - but I'm sure I recall that back in my day of being interviewed or sitting on an interview panel, which wasn't yesterday, that items such as date of birth and qualifications/qualification dates were a routine part of the application details.

Of course I could be mistaken.

 

No, you are right. DOB was always a question on the application form, still is. However hiring a pizza delivery person may be less formal. They would presumably have to show their driving licence and that has dob on it.
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jeremyp

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2022, 04:37:30 PM »
What is your justification for those age restrictions on MPs?

The minimum age is so that they can have some experience of the real world before becoming a representative of the people and the maximum age is because people's mental faculties start to wane soon after that. Not to mention being an MP is an arduous job, at least if done properly.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2022, 04:50:35 PM »
No, you are right. DOB was always a question on the application form, still is.
Nope - you are both wrong. It is unlawful to ask for someone's DOB on the application form for a job in the UK, nor ask their age. The only exceptions are when the employer is able to justify that being below or above a particular age is a genuine occupational requirement, but that is a very hard ask as it is very, very rare that such a justification can be sustained.

You can ask for DOB/age on a separate equality monitoring form. But firstly answering the questions on the equality monitoring form is voluntary - you cannot insist someone fills this information in. Secondly this information must be separated from the main application form and the people actually involved in selecting or interviewing candidates must not see this information and cannot use is as part of their selection process. The purpose of this form is for a company to monitor whether it is receiving fewer applications from certain groups of people, or are disproportionately recruiting people from certain groups when looking at the diversity of applications. This will allow a company to alter its recruitment processes if necessary.

https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2022, 04:52:24 PM »
The armed forces and the police have maximum age restrictions.
Not sure about the army, but the police no longer have an upper age restriction on who may apply. You can apply to join the police at any age, but you would need to demonstrate that you have the physical fitness to do the job of a junior police officer.

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2022, 05:31:22 PM »
Asking for a date of birth
You can only ask for someone’s date of birth on an application form if they must be a certain age to do the job, for example selling alcohol.

You can ask someone their date of birth on a separate equality monitoring form. You should not let the person selecting or interviewing candidates see this form.

https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment#:~:text=You%20can%20only%20ask%20for,interviewing%20candidates%20see%20this%20form.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2022, 06:12:59 PM »
Asking for a date of birth
You can only ask for someone’s date of birth on an application form if they must be a certain age to do the job, for example selling alcohol.

You can ask someone their date of birth on a separate equality monitoring form. You should not let the person selecting or interviewing candidates see this form.

https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment#:~:text=You%20can%20only%20ask%20for,interviewing%20candidates%20see%20this%20form.
Indeed - that is from the official site I linked to.

So bottom line is under normal circumstances it is unlawful to ask the age of someone as part of the recruitment process. The primary reason being that age is not a good way to assess whether an individual meets the requirement for a job and you need to be determining whether the individual who has applied for a job meets the job spec, not making decisions based on a particular group that this person belongs to, whether that be grouped by age, or sex, or any other protected characteristic.

And that is both the right thing to do in equalities terms, but also the sensible thing to do in recruitment terms - it isn't very smart to exclude someone who may be perfectly capable of doing a job (indeed could be the best candidate) simply because an employer has applied some crude and simplistic (and unlawful) minimum or maximum age requirement. Completely dumb thing for any sensible employer to do.

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2022, 08:44:20 PM »
I keep buying (and getting) non-alchoholics drinks and keep having to tell them my age or when I was born.
I've no idea why they think that's  in any way important.

(Just to be clear, they are alcohol-free beer and occasionally  lager, they say that on their packaging.)

Robbie

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2022, 08:50:23 PM »
|It may be illegal now to ask a person's age when they apply for a job but in my previous job where I worked for many years even before married, I dealt with many applications and we even asked for copy of birth certificate. I can remember having to submit mine when I joined.       

I do wonder if the reason this case has been reported is because there was some rudeness/arrogance in manner on the part of the interviewer. Who would object if asked, 'do you mind telling us how old you are'? There must have been some relevance though I can't imagine what for a pizza rider.
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Sriram

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2022, 06:14:55 AM »



Can you imagine 70 year old's zooming and winding their way through traffic at top speed, to deliver pizzas....?  Or even 50 year old's for that matter.....

Gordon

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Re: Asking the age of an applicant
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2022, 07:33:08 AM »


Can you imagine 70 year old's zooming and winding their way through traffic at top speed, to deliver pizzas....?  Or even 50 year old's for that matter.....

Well I'm 70, and I zoom through traffic on a fairly powerful motorcycle on a regular basis - albeit I don't deliver pizzas: but I've always enjoyed the 'zooming' bit.