The Queen is dead.

[Anchorman]

Agreed, and there is no case for just shutting up, just that maybe conversations should occur "in parallel".

Charles III is in place and unless there is some kind of revolution or coup I expect he will reign until his death in, possibly, around 20 years. I don't think the institution of the monarchy can be discussed or resolved without having the constitution put on a written basis, with appropriate reform wrt. HoL, devolution/independence of the UK nations and so on.

There will be a general election in around 2 years, I would like whoever wins that election to have a plan that will enable constitutional questions to be resolved democratically. I think my preference would be for a citizens assembly to be formed to look at the issue and make recommendations over a long term, independently of political considerations.
   

   
A citizens assembly would only wore wwere one set up in each of the nations of the union.
Our wishes will not be subsumed by the wishes of one nation by sheer dint of population.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

  You are showing here you don't understand the term 'circular argument', the term 'republic' and quite possibly 'authority'.

In what way?
If authority is gained from the public, how does that work?
How does a republic differ from a constitutional monarchy in any important sense.

Your dismissive post added to Gordon’s show that it is you and him that won’t engage.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not even wrong, Vlad.

Meaningless bollocks, Gordon, “Not even wrong, indeed”.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

   
A citizens assembly would only wore wwere one set up in each of the nations of the union.
Our wishes will not be subsumed by the wishes of one nation by sheer dint of population.

But surely that’s what a unitary British Republic entails since it’s authority is definitionally derived from the public.

Also since the monarch has the same function for all there are no national peculiarities to be accommodated.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I see that pageantagious flummery is in full swing now: my term for what afflicts those who, on being infected with a liking for pageantry, have no resistancence to it and who fail to spot that it really is no more than pointless window-dressing and/or entertainment - but with added lashings of faux gravitas.

 

You can always turn the TV off Gordon...although perhaps more useful advice. Might be you can always turn your computer off.

[Gordon]

You can always turn the TV off Gordon...although perhaps more useful advice. Might be you can always turn your computer off.

I'm aware of that, Vlad - thank 'God' (and there is a lot of 'God' going in the background of current events - the Anglican variety that is) for Netflix, cable channels, Prime Video and Disney+.

[Udayana]

I don't really get what you mean by 'in parallel' here.

Just that a discussion of the ending of the monarchy can be continued or plans proposed etc. Those too busy at the moment praying or parading or whatever can join it later if they want.

Ridiculous edits such as the admin that wants to prohibit soup recipes or the general shutdown of normal media due to the death are nothing to do with the constitution or monarchist / republican views and need to be countered on their own terms.   

[Udayana]

   
A citizens assembly would only wore wwere one set up in each of the nations of the union.
Our wishes will not be subsumed by the wishes of one nation by sheer dint of population.

Sure. In fact I doubt that there is anything preventing them setting up suitable assemblies to consider such issues at the moment.

Really, I don't understand why Scotland does not have one now (maybe they do?). Someone needs to work out how an independent Scotland could work instead of leaving it up to party politics and non-definitive or ambiguous referenda?   

[Nearly Sane]

In what way?
If authority is gained from the public, how does that work?
How does a republic differ from a constitutional monarchy in any important sense.

Your dismissive post added to Gordon’s show that it is you and him that won’t engage.

Who said it differed from a constitutional monarchy as regards authority? Or that monarchists won't engage? Straw, unlike most things, is obviously still cheap.

[Steve H]

I see that pageantagious flummery is in full swing now: my term for what afflicts those who, on being infected with a liking for pageantry, have no resistance to it and who fail to spot that it really is no more than pointless window-dressing and/or entertainment - but with added lashings of faux gravitas.

I don't know what you mean...

[Steve H]

Dont like the idea of these 'ere citizens assemblies. We elect MPs, councillors, etc. to make decisions, and they devote themselves ( in theory) to studying all aspects of each question. a citizen's assembly would attract every bigot, gammon, loony lefty, rabid righty and conspiracy nut around.

[Anchorman]

 So Chairlie is bringing Truss with him when he tours the union capitals?
I thought he was going to stay out of politics?
Bringing Truss to Scotland at this time is as political as it gets.

[Maeght]

So Chairlie is bringing Truss with him when he tours the union capitals?
I thought he was going to stay out of politics?
Bringing Truss to Scotland at this time is as political as it gets.

How is he bringing Truss with him?

[Gordon]

So Chairlie is bringing Truss with him when he tours the union capitals?
I thought he was going to stay out of politics?
Bringing Truss to Scotland at this time is as political as it gets.

If that is the case, and I haven't seen any reports confirming that is the plan, then I suppose it will depend on how they organise it.

Generally speaking Tory PMs visiting Scotland don't go walkabout among the general public, and and my impression is that access to them while they are here tends to be heavily controlled and restricted to to senior figures and other Tories. If some kind of 'joint tour' is envisaged I'm not sure that creating a perceived link between the monarchy and the Tories works well either way.

It is also the case that support for the monarchy is weaker in Scotland.

...... In May, the British Future thinktank found only 45% in Scotland wanted to retain the monarchy – compared with six in 10 people across Britain – while 36% believed the end of the Queen’s reign would be the appropriate moment to become a republic.

   

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/10/charles-iii-what-people-in-scotland-wales-and-ni-think-of-their-new-king

[Gordon]

What Anchorman says is indeed the case, from the Guardian live blog.

Liz Truss to accompany King Charles III on tour of Britain
The UK’s new prime minister Liz Truss will accompany King Charles on a royal tour of Britain’s four nations to lead days of national mourning for his mother, Queen Elizabeth II.

The prime minister’s spokesman said: “In terms of the prime minister’s involvement, she will join the King as he leads the national mourning across the United Kingdom, attending services of reflection in Scotland on Monday afternoon, in Northern Ireland on Tuesday, and Wales on Friday.”

 

Be interesting to see the reaction to her here.

[Aruntraveller]

A mistake.

I can feel my republican tendencies firming up.

(that is not a euphemism)

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm aware of that, Vlad - thank 'God' (and there is a lot of 'God' going in the background of current events - the Anglican variety that is) for Netflix, cable channels, Prime Video and Disney+.

I knew the English church would be at the root of your disgruntledness.

[Gordon]

I knew the English church would be at the root of your disgruntledness.

Is the Anglican Church, which is the term I used, exclusively English?

[Steve H]

Is the Anglican Church, which is the term I used, exclusively English?

Odd fact the Scottish Episcopal Church is the only national church in the Anglican communion (apart, of course, from the Church of England itself) which did not originate as an extension of the C of E. It had its own separate origin at the Reformation, and only later joined the Anglican communion.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Who said it differed from a constitutional monarchy as regards authority? Or that monarchists won't engage? Straw, unlike most things, is obviously still cheap.

Do you want to debate British republicanism or what?

[Nearly Sane]

Do you want to debate British republicanism or what?

This seems both a non sequitur and an incoherent question. I'm happy to have a discussion about why I am a republican but not sure if that's what you are trying to ask. Could you try again, please?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This seems both a non sequitur and an incoherent question. I'm happy to have a discussion about why I am a republican but not sure if that's what you are trying to ask. Could you try again, please?

OK. What is it about a British Republic that appeals to you?
Do you find joy in the accompanying deprivation of others of a beloved institution?

[Gordon]

OK. What is it about a British Republic that appeals to you?

Well, speaking personally, I'd prefer a Scottish republic, Vlad, not a British one: and in that scenario I don't much care what NI, Wales and England do since that would be a matter for them.

Do you find joy in the accompanying deprivation of others of a beloved institution?

No - because 'joy' is an inappropriate term here, but of course this is you deploying another straw man in misrepresenting the motivations of those of us who would like to see the dissolution of the monarchy.

[Nearly Sane]

OK. What is it about a British Republic that appeals to you?
Do you find joy in the accompanying deprivation of others of a beloved institution?

I don't find anything particularly appealing about a 'British republic'. Hence why I phrased my post about why I am a republican, rather than a 'British republucan'. Nor is it sonething that I support because it is 'appealing'. Rather it seems to me that the hereditary principle in terms of a head of state is a illogical restriction on democracy which instills an establishment into the govt. Further it seems an inwarranted restriction on any individuals who are part of that institution.

To answer your second question, no.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

A mistake.

I can feel my republican tendencies firming up.

(that is not a euphemism)

Given what you reported in your first post on this thread, I suggest you have given insufficient time to explore your initial response.