Author Topic: The Queen is dead.  (Read 21889 times)

Gordon

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #200 on: September 13, 2022, 06:46:46 PM »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #201 on: September 13, 2022, 06:59:10 PM »
and that monarchies are over-represented in your top 17 of countries with soft power?
Are they Vlad.

As far as I can see the top 3, when balancing across the 4 rankings are:

Germany - republic
France - republic
USA - republic

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #202 on: September 13, 2022, 07:06:52 PM »
So much for the gush of emotions and support!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-staff-given-redundancy-notice-during-church-service-for-queen
Classy!

This is were the differences between Charles and the Queen become apparent - both in judgement (I simply don't think the Queen would have done this and certainly not at this timing), but all relationship with the media. I think the mainstream press would have been very reticent to run a negative story of this kind with the Queen, but we've already seen a number for Charles with the media unwilling to hold back. So we've seen:

Pen-gate
Failure to inform, let alone, consult FM of Wales on appointment of Prince of ... err ... Wales-gate, and now
Redundancy-gate

Charles seems to have evoked more negative press stories in just a couple of days than the Queen managed in the past couple of decades.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #203 on: September 13, 2022, 07:18:04 PM »
Are they Vlad.

As far as I can see the top 3, when balancing across the 4 rankings are:

Germany - republic
France - republic
USA - republic
Let me remind you that in your top 17 7 were monarchies and 10 were republics.
What you failed to take into account is that there are around 156 republics and 44 monarchies. So monarchies are over represented and republics underrepresented in your own measure.

So that puts republics in a poorer light.

You offered 4 different measurements of soft power France exceeded the UK at number one with the UK at number two once and Germany in another where the UK was number two.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #204 on: September 13, 2022, 07:27:39 PM »
'The BBC has also announced it will broadcast the first Paddington film on Saturday 17 September as a tribute to the Queen - who starred with the Peruvian bear in a sketch marking her Platinum Jubilee earlier this year.

Paddington 2 will then be shown on Monday 19 September, following coverage of the Queen's funeral'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62894460

 

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #205 on: September 13, 2022, 07:45:57 PM »
Let me remind you that in your top 17 7 were monarchies and 10 were republics.
What you failed to take into account is that there are around 156 republics and 44 monarchies. So monarchies are over represented and republics underrepresented in your own measure.

So that puts republics in a poorer light.
Not really - given that by combining the rankings the top three are all republics, eight of the top ten are republics. The numbers of monarchies are bulked up by countries grumbling around the bottom with 4 appearing only once across all four top ten rankings.

Now I'm not arguing that republics are clearly better at soft power, but there is no evidence to support a notion that the presence of a monarch enhances soft power and indeed the type of constitutional arrangement seems to have little impact, except that democracies dominate.
 
You offered 4 different measurements of soft power France exceeded the UK at number one with the UK at number two once and Germany in another where the UK was number two.
Err, you seem to have forgotten that the UK didn't even make the top 10 in one of the rankings.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #206 on: September 13, 2022, 08:07:25 PM »

I can understand the police removing the bloke for his own safety given the people in the crowd attacked him but he should just have been told to fuck off because they had a hard enough job to do. After all Andrew is indeed a dirty old man.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62889396

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #207 on: September 13, 2022, 08:51:34 PM »
Classy!

This is were the differences between Charles and the Queen become apparent - both in judgement (I simply don't think the Queen would have done this and certainly not at this timing), but all relationship with the media. I think the mainstream press would have been very reticent to run a negative story of this kind with the Queen, but we've already seen a number for Charles with the media unwilling to hold back. So we've seen:

Pen-gate
Failure to inform, let alone, consult FM of Wales on appointment of Prince of ... err ... Wales-gate, and now
Redundancy-gate

Charles seems to have evoked more negative press stories in just a couple of days than the Queen managed in the past couple of decades.
I think you need reminding that had the queen been succeeded by a republic a whole load more would have got the sack. But your lack of consideration seems to point to you not giving a shit about that.


Gordon

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #209 on: September 13, 2022, 09:51:30 PM »
There's a kind of 'respect'-driven hysteria going on - it's bizarre. Large supermarkets that normally stay open on bank holidays are staying closed on the 19th as a 'mark of respect': what utter bollocks!

Anchorman

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #210 on: September 14, 2022, 08:20:31 AM »
There's a kind of 'respect'-driven hysteria going on - it's bizarre. Large supermarkets that normally stay open on bank holidays are staying closed on the 19th as a 'mark of respect': what utter bollocks!
   

Yep.
Not much respect for those folk who can't shop days ahead (mainly due to 'HM' government's criminal treatment of the poorest in society)
Still, I suppose kids growing hungry and crying adds to the mournful atmosphere.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #211 on: September 14, 2022, 08:44:32 AM »
I think you need reminding that had the queen been succeeded by a republic a whole load more would have got the sack.
Pure speculation. Firstly that is a completely irrelevant comparison - these people are being made redundant because one monarch is being replaced by another monarch. It isn't a situation where one type of constitution is being replaced by another - whether that be monarchy by republic or republic by monarchy. So Vlad, for your point to have any kind of validity (it doesn't by the way) you'd also need to explain why a situation where a republic is replaced by a monarchy wouldn't result in redundancies while a monarchy replaced by a president would.

Secondly I'm not sure that the creation of a republic would have such an effect - you'd replace a monarch, requiring staff, administrative functions etc, with a president performing similar functions and similarly requiring staff, administrative functions etc. So presumably many, if not most of those people would be transferred to similar roles (possibly requiring TUPE) to serve the new non-royal head of state.

The reason why these people are being made redundant is that we have one less royal to serve with costly admin - so the whole functions of Clarence House are no longer needed as Charles acquires the functions that served his mother.

But your lack of consideration seems to point to you not giving a shit about that.
Nope - it is you who is showing lack of consideration - these are real people, many of who have served Charles for years and decades who are casually being told they may be made redundant at a time when I suspect many of these people are feeling raw and emotional and during an unprecedented cost of living crisis. And the timing and manner of the notice really stinks - firstly to make the announcement right now, before the Queen has even been buried. So apparently it is completely unacceptable to be on holiday in Center Parts on Monday, but perfectly acceptable to sack people in the royal household.

Also people found out in an impersonal letter from a minion - if you are going to threaten people with redundancy have the guts to do it yourself and do it in person. Once during my career I had to preside over a restructure that placed a significant number of people under threat of redundancy in the department I headed - I told the staff in person, in a meeting, face-to-face (obviously followed up by formal letters).

So yes I do feel for these people, real people whose real jobs are under threat. By contrast all you can do is make a political point about a hypothetical situation involving hypothetical people and hypothetical jobs. And I thought christians were supposed to be compassionate - not much of that on show from you Vlad.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #212 on: September 14, 2022, 08:51:40 AM »
   

Yep.
Not much respect for those folk who can't shop days ahead (mainly due to 'HM' government's criminal treatment of the poorest in society)
Still, I suppose kids growing hungry and crying adds to the mournful atmosphere.
Also the Center Parcs situation is bonkers.

Many people will have booked to stay for a week - Friday to Friday. They are now being told that they can still have their holiday, except that Monday is cancelled. How are families expected to find some alternative accommodation for Monday night.

I think we really need to get a sense of proportion here - there is a funeral on Monday, it has been declared a Bank holiday, so I understand that the businesses which normally close on a bank holiday will do so. But those that are normally open I'd expect to open too, all being with perhaps altered opening hours. So essential shops should perhaps close for a couple of hours when the funeral is actually taking place, but otherwise should open. Individuals can make their own decision what they choose to do on Monday (and between now and then). What happened to keep calm and carry on.

Anchorman

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #213 on: September 14, 2022, 08:53:18 AM »
Anyone know if the dotty 'Hexagons of lightning' AKA Emiliy Windsor, who used to haunt the BBBC board, is still around?
It might be interesting to hear her.....er.....insight.......
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #214 on: September 14, 2022, 09:18:47 AM »
Second pen-gate in just a few days.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/queen-king-charles-northern-ireland-b2166557.html

What is interesting is firstly how petulant and unprofessional Charles appears (cannot imagine his mother having the same response), but also in both instances he seems to take his frustrations out on his staff, who presumably aren't to blame.

Now I think his mother was a calmer and much more measured presence - she'd probably have just carried on without anyone noticing or just laughed it off. But also there is a very different relationship with the press - the Queen's was very good but rather remote, so I suspect the press wouldn't have reported the incident at all in any significant manner. Charles, by contrast, has a very bad relationship with the press dating back over many years. And while that is completely understandable given what happened to his former wife it doesn't change the fact that a bad relationship with the press means that incidents like this will be reported and the spin will be able the temperament of Charles.

There is a final point - Charles has just lost his mother - that is difficult for any of us, but certainly more difficult if you have to perform various functions as well. So in that respect I have great sympathy. Except, he doesn't need to - this whole tour of the UK thing has no precedent - his mother didn't do it before George VI's funeral, nor his grandfather etc. This is being presented as an aspect of royal protocol during official mourning of a monarch, but it is no such thing. I suspect he decided he must be super visible to try to shore up the credibility of succession. But there is nothing in royal protocol or royal precedent that requires (or expects) a new monarch to go on a whistle stop tour of the 4 nations, attending ceremonies, signing documents, doing walkabouts. This is all new.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #215 on: September 14, 2022, 09:29:47 AM »
Friend posted up this conversation woth his 6 year old daughter

“Is the news meant to tell us new things that have just happened, daddy?”
“Yes, love”
“Things we don’t already know?”
“Yes, love”
“Well, everyone in the world must know the Queen died by now so they can definitely move onto something else tomorrow.”

Gordon

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #216 on: September 14, 2022, 09:55:00 AM »
Friend posted up this conversation woth his 6 year old daughter

“Is the news meant to tell us new things that have just happened, daddy?”
“Yes, love”
“Things we don’t already know?”
“Yes, love”
“Well, everyone in the world must know the Queen died by now so they can definitely move onto something else tomorrow.”

Nae chance: most of the media are going to milk this for the next week or so on the presumption that we are all happy to be force-fed sychophantic sentiment to overdose levels: some of us aren't, but thankfully the nonsense can be largely avoided provided one is also happy to avoid most of the mainstream media for the next week when, hopefully, said nonsense will subside. 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 10:04:40 AM by Gordon »

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #217 on: September 14, 2022, 09:59:45 AM »
Anyone know if the dotty 'Hexagons of lightning' AKA Emiliy Windsor, who used to haunt the BBBC board, is still around?
It might be interesting to hear her.....er.....insight.......
Emily wasn't Hexagons of Lightning. That was Frankie who didn't claim to be the true royal heir but was just as nutty

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #218 on: September 14, 2022, 10:21:08 AM »
Nae chance: most of the media are going to milk this for the next week or so on the presumption that we are all happy to be force-fed sychophantic sentiment to overdose levels: some of us aren't, but thankfully the nonsense can be largely avoided provided one is also happy to avoid most of the mainstream media for the next week when, hopefully, said nonsense will subside.
Only you guys could make yourselves look a bunch of miseries by NOT being involved in a mourning.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #219 on: September 14, 2022, 10:30:37 AM »
Only you guys could make yourselves look a bunch of miseries by NOT being involved in a mourning.
If you want to mourn, then go ahead and mourn.

What I don't like is the notion of enforced mourning - that would are required to, or at least should, mourn and that mourning should take a particular form. Whether or not to mourn is a personal matter. I also don't like the notion that there is an 'expected' way in which you should pay your respects - people that do want to pay their respects will have all sorts of ways in which they will want to do this, that are personal to them.

Queuing for hours to file pass the coffin of a person you probably never met and didn't know is one way - and that's fine if you want to do it (although don't buy into the myth that public lying in state is some centuries-old tradition and protocol - it isn't). But others won't want to do this, but may mark their respects in their own private and personal manner - and that is nothing to do with anyone else and it isn't your business how they choose to pay their respects or whether they choose to pay their respects.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 10:41:49 AM by ProfessorDavey »

Sebastian Toe

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #220 on: September 14, 2022, 10:35:38 AM »
Anyone know if the dotty 'Hexagons of lightning' AKA Emiliy Windsor, who used to haunt the BBBC board, is still around?
It might be interesting to hear her.....er.....insight.......

Here she is, or was!
Last posted Feb 2021.

Given her age that might not be good or maybe she has moved on to another platform?
I would have expected something from her though.

https://youtu.be/ufHMrFT7dEU
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #221 on: September 14, 2022, 10:43:49 AM »
Anyone know if the dotty 'Hexagons of lightning' AKA Emiliy Windsor, who used to haunt the BBBC board, is still around?
It might be interesting to hear her.....er.....insight.......

This is her "claim to the throne" page, not been updated.

http://www.holyconservancy.org/1CLAIM.html
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #222 on: September 14, 2022, 10:49:36 AM »
Actually a pretty good article from the BBC. My take is that there isn't really any evidence of some 'fascist' clampdown on protest but a number of fairly understandable mistakes by police in a bizarre situation. I think the breach of the peace charge for the bloke shouting at Andrew should be quietly dropped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-62887745

SweetPea

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #223 on: September 14, 2022, 11:35:43 AM »
Just switched on the telly (out of curiosity to get an update on what's happening with late queenie) and the BBC were interviewing a woman that had stayed out all night to get a front row view of the coffin's journey to Westminster hall. She was absolutely soaked, hair dripping and looking exhausted. Don't ask me .... guess it's the price you pay for devotion.  :-X
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Nearly Sane

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Re: The Queen is dead.
« Reply #224 on: September 14, 2022, 12:40:07 PM »
Or delusion