The Queen is dead.

[Nearly Sane]

Is it? Perhaps it is - evidence please.

https://www.royal.uk/counsellors-state

[ProfessorDavey]

https://www.royal.uk/counsellors-state

Fair enough, although your article does state:

"Counsellors of State are appointed from among the four adults next in succession (provided they have reached the age of 21)."

And that there can be a minimum of two. So my reading is that Charles is not obliged to appoint spouse plus four, but could have chosen to appoint just Camilla and William (on the basis that the other three next in line are either unsuitable, or unknown).

So perhaps not in his gift to appoint Anne, but appears in his gift not to appoint Andrew.

[Nearly Sane]

Fair enough, although your article does state:

"Counsellors of State are appointed from among the four adults next in succession (provided they have reached the age of 21)."

And that there can be a minimum of two. So my reading is that Charles is not obliged to appoint spouse plus four, but could have chosen to appoint just Camilla and William (on the basis that the other three next in line are either unsuitable, or unknown).

So perhaps not in his gift to appoint Anne, but appears in his gift not to appoint Andrew.

Think it would have to be Camilla who isn't in line, and William and Harry then.

[Nearly Sane]

Fair enough, although your article does state:

"Counsellors of State are appointed from among the four adults next in succession (provided they have reached the age of 21)."

And that there can be a minimum of two. So my reading is that Charles is not obliged to appoint spouse plus four, but could have chosen to appoint just Camilla and William (on the basis that the other three next in line are either unsuitable, or unknown).

So perhaps not in his gift to appoint Anne, but appears in his gift not to appoint Andrew.

Had a quick look at the Regency Act 1937 and it states:

'F3(2)Subject as hereinafter provided, the Counsellors of State shall be the wife or husband of the Sovereign (if the Sovereign is married), and the four persons who, excluding any persons disqualified under this section, are next in the line of succession to the Crown, or if the number of such persons next in the line of succession is less than four, then all such persons'

So looks like it includes Andrew and Beatrice

[ProfessorDavey]

Had a quick look at the Regency Act 1937 and it states:

'F3(2)Subject as hereinafter provided, the Counsellors of State shall be the wife or husband of the Sovereign (if the Sovereign is married), and the four persons who, excluding any persons disqualified under this section, are next in the line of succession to the Crown, or if the number of such persons next in the line of succession is less than four, then all such persons'

So looks like it includes Andrew and Beatrice

Yes - looks that way, albeit would be interested to know what would disqualify an individual - qv Andrew!

But I guess this is where plenty of people just lose the will to live and it demonstrates the disconnect between royal protocol and what people might think reasonable. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who simply won't care about some seemingly archaic Act, but cannot understand how someone so disgraced as Andrew can then simply be appointed to this position. The fact that he is actually just being reappointed will be lost as I suspect most people won't have known that he was a Counsellor of State before the Queen died, but may have picked up that Charles had appointed him as one.

[Gordon]

At last - a Labour MP has the guts to speak out, and in spite of the fact that his party leader wants all his underlings to join in the seemingly mandatory virtue-signalling for fear of upsetting monarchists.

Well done Clive Lewis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/16/mourning-republicans-system-privilege

[ProfessorDavey]

https://www.royal.uk/counsellors-state

Further reading!

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2020/01/21/craig-prescott-harry-and-meghan-regency-counsellors-of-state-and-a-slimmed-down-royal-family/

Would appear that the Counsellors of State aren't actually appointed until needed, so the media implication of appointments is wrong and he only change is the addition of Beatrice in the 'pool'. Seems somewhat badly handled by the press/media team.

However there remains some issues, given that there is just one working royal (excepting Camilla) in the pool, and I think they cannot act if overseas. So if Charles is overseas then the only person as a working royal is William - but what if he is overseas too. And it would appear that some decisions would need to be taken jointly by two counsellors - so we will have a situation where non working royals (including disgraced ones) will be performing the functions of the monarch. Hmm.

Seems completely incompatible with both the positions of Andrew and potentially Harry, and not reasonable for Beatrice plus hardly compatible with the notion of a slimmed down royal family. Some amendment surely required.

[Nearly Sane]

.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

At last - a Labour MP has the guts to speak out, and in spite of the fact that his party leader wants all his underlings to join in the seemingly mandatory virtue-signalling for fear of upsetting monarchists.

Well done Clive Lewis.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/16/mourning-republicans-system-privilege

I hope this isn't just attention seeking, a rash of which seems to be grabbing republicans.

[Gordon]

I hope this isn't just attention seeking, a rash of which seems to be grabbing republicans.

Doesn't read like attention seeking to me - reads more the the views of someone who realises that the king has no clothes on and is perplexed that those attracted by the ongoing pantomime can't see this for themselves.

[Nearly Sane]

I hope this isn't just attention seeking, a rash of which seems to be grabbing republicans.

Because the mourning is so discreet.

[Steve H]

What on earth was Princess Anne wearing during the vigil in Westminster Hall? She looked like a character out of Gilbert and Sullivan!

[Nearly Sane]

What on earth was Princess Annewearing during the vigil in Westminster Hall? She looked like a character out of Gilbert and Sullivan!

https://inews.co.uk/news/princess-anne-was-military-royal-uniform-why-service-explained-1853004

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What on earth was Princess Annewearing during the vigil in Westminster Hall? She looked like a character out of Gilbert and Sullivan!

My word it's september and panto season is with us.

[Aruntraveller]

Because the mourning is so discreet.

Quite.

All those people filming proceedings with their little mobile phones are definitely doing that out of sincere, respectful reverence for the Queen.

Nothing to do with an "I was there" syndrome, or look at me "I'm really patriotic".


Patriotic Bingo is needed:

Queued for 10 hours for 4 corners.

Cried while queuing for a top line.

Cried, managed to film the coffin discreetly whilst Charles was standing vigil gives you a full house.

[Anchorman]

https://inews.co.uk/news/princess-anne-was-military-royal-uniform-why-service-explained-1853004

 


There has to be a chocolate box in it somewhere, now that tin soldiers are out of fashion.

[ProfessorDavey]

https://inews.co.uk/news/princess-anne-was-military-royal-uniform-why-service-explained-1853004

From the article:

"The uniform she has been pictured in is a Royal Navy ceremonial uniform – she was made a Rear Admiral in 1993, before being promoted to Vice Admiral in 2009 and finally Admiral in 2012.

In 2020 Anne was also made a General in the British Army and an Air Chief Marshal in the Royal Air Force."

Impressive for someone who has never been in the military.

[Nearly Sane]

.

[SweetPea]

Quite.

All those people filming proceedings with their little mobile phones are definitely doing that out of sincere, respectful reverence for the Queen.

Nothing to do with an "I was there" syndrome, or look at me "I'm really patriotic".


Patriotic Bingo is needed:

Queued for 10 hours for 4 corners.

Cried while queuing for a top line.

Cried, managed to film the coffin discreetly whilst Charles was standing vigil gives you a full house.

I think it's both mass hypnosis and mass hysteria that is happening. I put the blame firmly on the media, they absolutely milk it, as the saying goes. People are completely mesmerised by what they see when they turn on their televisions or look at a newspaper. I actually find it quite worrying and feel myself concerned for some folks' mental health.

The waiting time in the queue to visit Westminster Hall is now 16hrs. There are stewards on hand to provide emotional support to folk after they leave the hall. Some apparently are so distressed they have more assistants to guide them to places for counselling. I mean this is far from a satisfactory situation. Once again. why put yourself through this 'ordeal'.

[Nearly Sane]

From the article:

"The uniform she has been pictured in is a Royal Navy ceremonial uniform – she was made a Rear Admiral in 1993, before being promoted to Vice Admiral in 2009 and finally Admiral in 2012.

In 2020 Anne was also made a General in the British Army and an Air Chief Marshal in the Royal Air Force."

Impressive for someone who has never been in the military.

Penguins can do it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Olav

[Udayana]

I think it's both mass hypnosis and mass hysteria that is happening. I put the blame firmly on the media, they absolutely milk it, as the saying goes. People are completely mesmerised by what they see when they turn on their televisions or look at a newspaper. I actually find it quite worrying and feel myself concerned for some folks' mental health.

The waiting time in the queue to visit Westminster Hall is now 16hrs. There are stewards on hand to provide emotional support to folk after they leave the hall. Some apparently are so distressed they have more assistants to guide them to places for counselling. I mean this is far from a satisfactory situation. Once again. why put yourself through this 'ordeal'.

It is essentially the same as the religious motivation or feeling behind arduous pilgrimages or tasks, parading of idols, mass religious expressions such as the Hajj, Kumbh Mela .. etc. I'm surprised Charles hasn't called for deification.  Even Augustus only lived 75 years, reigning for 41 - over an empire smaller than Elizabeth's.     
 

[Nearly Sane]

It is essentially the same as the religious motivation or feeling behind arduous pilgrimages or tasks, parading of idols, mass religious expressions such as the Hajj, Kumbh Mela .. etc. I'm surprised Charles hasn't called for deification.  Even Augustus only lived 75 years, reigning for 41 - over an empire smaller than Elizabeth's.   

Though pretty well non-existent at the end of the reign.

I think it's been interesting watching the reaction to those who have used their position to jump the queue.

[Nearly Sane]

I am a little surprised that no one has done the queue on their knees.

[SweetPea]

It is essentially the same as the religious motivation or feeling behind arduous pilgrimages or tasks, parading of idols, mass religious expressions such as the Hajj, Kumbh Mela .. etc. I'm surprised Charles hasn't called for deification.  Even Augustus only lived 75 years, reigning for 41 - over an empire smaller than Elizabeth's.   

Yes, absolutely. The same took place when Diana died i.e. the mass hypnosis and hysteria. What is annoying is the media, especially the BBC, who practically encourage it by interviewing so-and-so who has travelled miles or a mum who has carried her toddler all through the night. Poor toddler, am sure late maj. would have thought, 'that child should be tucked-up in bed'. These people deserve a medal is the psychological undertone but then the media thrive on such an action. Ah, well, nothing stranger than folk ... 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I am a little surprised that no one has done the queue on their knees.

Or dressed as a smurf.