Imposing their views

[Walt Zingmatilder]

One of the many fears expressed on this forum is that of people imposing their views.
What is this?
Who is doing it and how are they doing it?

[Aruntraveller]

Can you give an example?

[Roses]

Some people state something as a fact when it is only a belief.

[jeremyp]

Some people state something as a fact when it is only a belief.

Is that a fact? Or just your belief?

[Roses]

Is that a fact? Or just your belief?

When it is concerning religion and stating what God is thinking, for instance, that must be a belief not a fact.

[Aruntraveller]

Some people state something as a fact when it is only a belief.

That is not imposing their view, though. It is a separate issue, surely?

I could state my view that I am the most handsome creature to walk the planet. Persuading myself is easy.

Imposing it on others would take powers of persuasion of an altogether greater magnitude.

[Roses]

That is not imposing their view, though. It is a separate issue, surely?

I could state my view that I am the most handsome creature to walk the planet. Persuading myself is easy.

Imposing it on others would take powers of persuasion of an altogether greater magnitude.

Of course you are the most handsome creature to walk the earth, others must be so jealous of you!

It get your point. I guess the likes of Trump and Putin who impose their views on others are a good example of this.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Can you give an example?

Not really, that's why I'm asking whether anybody knows what it actually is, who's doing it and what it is they are doing? Ideally, if you have used that phrase and somebody has on this forum in the last 24 hours, then please inform us of what you meant by it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some people state something as a fact when it is only a belief.

That doesn't like it has to be imposed though. You could state something and not impose it, couldn't you?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Of course you are the most handsome creature to walk the earth, others must be so jealous of you!

It get your point. I guess the likes of Trump and Putin who impose their views on others are a good example of this.

But something like them imposing it is unlikely to be repeated by your average forum poster.

[Nearly Sane]

Not really, that's why I'm asking whether anybody knows what it actually is, who's doing it and what it is they are doing? Ideally, if you have used that phrase and somebody has on this forum in the last 24 hours, then please inform us of what you meant by it.

Why don't you just cite the post?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why don't you just cite the post?

Re: Death
« Reply #16

[Nearly Sane]

Re: Death
« Reply #16

So for everyone else this is Maeght's post where he says



'Of course people can speculate provided they recognise that that is what they are doing and don't try impose their speculation on others . Strings etc are speculation yes.'


So if Maeght wants to respond to you, he can but not sure why you didn't just ask him on the thread about it.

[Maeght]

One of the many fears expressed on this forum is that of people imposing their views.
What is this?
Who is doing it and how are they doing it?

Religious indoctrination of children for one thing.

I did say 'try' (forgot the to!). Do you suggest that historically this hasn't happened?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Religious indoctrination of children for one thing.

I think it's called education Maeght. Every society indoctrinates it's youth with the values of that society. A secular school cannot help itself indoctrinating humanist values. Sometimes it produces good people, sometimes it doesn't. The trouble with Humanism is that it looks at people with rose tinted spectacles. I remember seeing Copson expound his solution to crime which was to sit down with perpetrators and talk it through. Teaching that I think could be quite harmful.

[Maeght]

I think it's called education Maeght. Every society indoctrinates it's youth with the values of that society. A secular school cannot help itself indoctrinating humanist values. Sometimes it produces good people, sometimes it doesn't. The trouble with Humanism is that it looks at people with rose tinted spectacles. I remember seeing Copson expound his solution to crime which was to sit down with perpetrators and talk it through. Teaching that I think could be quite harmful.

So you agree it is indoctrination, great, because it is. Adults imposing their beliefs on children. You can bring children up and educate them in the culture of the society they live in but religious belief should be a personal thing and shouldn't be imposed under the guise of culture and values.

Historically those of a religious faith have tried to impose their beliefs on others I'm sure you'd agree, hence my comment that people shouldn't try to impose their beliefs on others. It's happened in the past and some try to do it now.

Hope that explains my comment.

[Gordon]

Every society indoctrinates it's youth with the values of that society. A secular school cannot help itself indoctrinating humanist values.

Alternatively: Every society indoctrinates it's youth with the values of that society. A faith school cannot help itself indoctrinating religious values.

[Nearly Sane]

Alternatively: Every society indoctrinates it's youth with the values of that society. A faith school cannot help itself indoctrinating religious values.

TBH, I'm not really sure about the difference. Values are subjective and this seems to imply that if the society's values were religious it's ok to reach them in schools.

Vlad's statement that a secular school must end up teaching humanist  values shows his ongoing confusion about what secular means. A secular school could use any number of values rather than humanist.

[Steve H]

Some people state something as a fact when it is only a belief.

For example:

Values are subjective...

[Nearly Sane]

For example:

In the absence of a method to establish values as objective, it's a valid statement. Do you have such a method?

[Gordon]

TBH, I'm not really sure about the difference. Values are subjective and this seems to imply that if the society's values were religious it's ok to reach them in schools.

Vlad's statement that a secular school must end up teaching humanist  values shows his ongoing confusion about what secular means. A secular school could use any number of values rather than humanist.

Ah - in copying Vlad's text, and changing just two words for effect, on re-reading I realise I fell into the trap of Vlad's (il)logic.

I'll need to have a lie down for a while.

[Steve H]

In the absence of a method to establish values as objective, it's a valid statement. Do you have such a method?

The point is not whether or not it's true or valid, but that you state it as though it's a self-evident, universally accepted fact, which it isn't many people disagree.

[Gordon]

The point is not whether or not it's true or valid, but that you state it as though it's a self-evident, universally accepted fact, which it isn't many people disagree.

I'd say it's axiomatic that values are subjective since they're neither fixed nor uniform.

[Nearly Sane]

The point is not whether or not it's true or valid, but that you state it as though it's a self-evident, universally accepted fact, which it isn't many people disagree.

Some people think the world is flat. It isn't

[Roses]

Some people think the world is flat. It isn't

Are you sure of that?